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Thread: Local Rank stuff...

  1. #1
    Senior Member chromate's Avatar
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    Local Rank stuff...

    After much negotiation, I've managed to secure myself a "page-for-page" link exchange with the current #1 site in google for "carbohydrate counter". We have pretty much exactly the same PR for each page according to the tool bar, so it's a pretty fair exchange.

    Let's see how this helps my rankings. I'm currently ranked #101.

  2. #2
    Administrator Chris's Avatar
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    Good luck.
    Chris Beasley - My Guide to Building a Successful Website[size=1]
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  3. #3
    Senior Member chromate's Avatar
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    Cheers Chris. It'll be interesting to see what the result is anyway.

  4. #4
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    local rank

    chromate,
    good luck. This stuff is very interesting.

    I just wanted to say a few things about the local rank algo.
    The localscore is based on the top K (probably around 20) keyword relevant pages pointing to you. If you now have 1 page, its relevance score will be divided by some number to get your localscore(the other 19 spots are 0). So, probably it is a good idea to find ALL pages in the google results that are ranked for carbohydrate counter and exchange links with them(directories are the best, because they don't compete with you, and you can place their links on your links page).

    The other thing is that google detects links from your other sites(by IP) and from other sites with very similar content. The page that you have exchanged links with looks similar at least for the food categories. I hope google doesn't think the pages are nearly duplicates.

    btw. why the link on your site ends with "carb counter" and not "carbohydrate counter". I am just curious(the link should be counted as a good on-page factor).

    Cheers

  5. #5
    Senior Member chromate's Avatar
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    I've been trying to do exchanges with the other sites on the first page too. Funnily enough, the #1 site was the only one that even replied to my mails. I also have a couple of links from DMOZ which should help (though, they don't seem to have helped, so far!)

    Interesting you should say that google detects sites from the same IP linking to each other. Shortly before this update I decided to link to carbohydrate counter at the bottom of every page on my Weight Loss Tips site (about 10 pages). The site has the same IP. Do you think this could have contributed to my decline in the SERPs? How do you know Google look at the IP?

    I removed pretty much all my "carbohydrate counter" keyword text from the front page, as I wasn't sure if there is some filter in play. All the top sites barely mention the text at all, so when mine was plucked out the SERPs, that was the only difference I could see. Also, those links are to my competitor's site, so I didn't want to contribute to his keyword based anchor text. He calls his carbohydrate counter a "carb counter" anyway, so it worked out well.

  6. #6
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    local score

    chromate,
    look for directories to exchange links with. It won't matter even if they are on 990 SERP, it will be good for the local score. The only important part is that the page pointing to you is relevant to the keywordz. Your link on their page will also boost their relevance to the keyword, which should be good for your local score. The good thing is that you place their link on your links page, while they put your link in the "keyword relevant page".
    Note, that the SERPs don't reveal the original relevance score, but the modified relevant * localscore. If the dmoz page that points to you is in the results for "carbohydrate counter" it should help. I asked about the link, because when links on your page include YOUR keywords, it should help your score(esp. if they are links to other sites).

    I don't think there's any filter, over-optimization or whatever thing. Every factor has an upper limit (or score influence), so that no matter how many keywords you stuff, only the first or top N would matter(it is probably some logarithmic function).

    If you exchange front-page links with more sites, the others will get you Another good thing is to separate your link pages into categories. They will appear in the SERPs for other keywords, and many people will ask you for link exchanges. For example, if you have a page for "Fitness Software Links" I will gladly exchange links with you(so will my competitors). This will build overall page rank(not local score). Everyone will want to trade links with you. Look for the top sites on "diet", "fitness" etc. They are mostly link exchange PR based. So you get high overall PR + local score PR.

    Now, for the IP. I will paste the part of the google patent that interests you.
    Enjoy.

    "Re-ranking component 122 begins by identifying the documents in the initial set that have a hyperlink to document x. (Act 301). The set of documents that have such hyperlinks are denoted as B(y). Documents from the same host as document x tend to be similar to document x but often do not provide significant new information to the user. Accordingly, re-ranking component 124 removes documents from B(y) that have the same host as document x. (Act 302). More specifically, let IP3(x) denote the first three octets of the IP (Internet Protocol) address of document x (i.e., the IP subnet). If IP3(x)=IP3(y), document y is removed from B(y).

    On occasion, multiple different hosts may be similar enough to one another to be considered the same host for purposes of Acts 301 and 302. For example, one host may be a "mirror" site for a different primary host and thus contain the same documents as the primary host. Additionally, a host site may be affiliated with another site, and thus contain the same or nearly the same documents. Similar or affiliated hosts may be determined through a manual search or by an automated web search that compares the contents at different hosts. Documents from such similar or affiliated hosts may be removed by re-ranking component 124 from B(y) in Act 302.

    Re-ranking component 124 next compares all pairs of documents in B(y) for any pair in which IP3(first document of the pair)=IP3(second document of the pair), and removes the document of the pair from B(y) that has the lower OldScore value. (Acts 303-306). In other words, if there are multiple documents in B(y) for the same (or similar or affiliated) host IP address, only the document most relevant to the user's search query, as determined by the document's OldScore, is kept in B(y). Documents are removed from B(y) in this manner to prevent any single author of web content from having too much of an impact on the ranking value. "

  7. #7
    Senior Member chromate's Avatar
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    That's really interesting! Looks like I should definitely get another IP address. My host wont give me a second IP address that has a different subnet. What's the best way to do this? Would it be easiest to move Carbohydrate Counter to a different host in order to get the different subnet? Or is there a cheaper way to do it?

    Where can I see the whole Local Rank google patent? I haven't really bothered looking into it too much, but I think now I should take the time to get my head around it. It looks interesting anyway.

  8. #8
    Administrator Chris's Avatar
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    You could just get another hosting account. ITs $5-$10. If your site makes money its worth it.

    I'm not sure Google is using IP addresses in this manner yet, but what I did is put my hub site on a different IP and a couple of my bigger/money makers on different ips as well. I can get like 8 IPs per server through rackshack so..
    Chris Beasley - My Guide to Building a Successful Website[size=1]
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  9. #9
    Senior Member chromate's Avatar
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    I think I will put it on another hosting account. It's definitely making enough money to make it worth while.

    I was going through the SERPs and found this category listing from Yahoo...

    Health > Weight Issues > Weight Loss > Carbohydrate Counters

    I also noticed that the current #1 site is listed in that category. Needless to say, I've applied to that category With any luck...

  10. #10
    Web Monkey MarkB's Avatar
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    Would an IP numbers such as:

    123.456.78.910
    123.456.78.911

    Be considered different enough for the above to have any effect?
    Stepping On Wires - the new blog

  11. #11
    Senior Member chromate's Avatar
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    According to the clip pasted above, No. Because they have the same subnet.

  12. #12
    Web Monkey MarkB's Avatar
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    Well... bum.

    I might try moving one of my sites to my secondary server (with another host) to see if it makes any difference. Although it won't show for a while, I guess.
    Stepping On Wires - the new blog

  13. #13
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    wow technical stuff. very intresting read thanks nohaber.

  14. #14
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    local rank

    First of all, DON'T MOVE YOUR SITES.
    It won't work. It's too technical to explain. Even if it works which is kinda very unlikely, it will be somewhere in the very distant future
    Just remember, to put all your future sites on different hosts.

    chromate,
    get that yahoo listing, and I'm sure you'll be in the top 10, if not #1. When I get the #1 spot for my primary keywordz, I hope I will be in top 100 for the secondary keword "carb counter" and we could exchange links.

    Chris,
    google's patent on detecting duplicate and near duplicate documents, as well as query specific duplicate and near duplicate documents, as well as the local reranking patent are 3 years old. Google has been using IPs, similar documents info for a long time.

    I'd like to set up an experiment. We need a website that is not changing at all and has had a stable not-so-good google ranking for some time. In the next month, everyone of us will bookmark his main keyword page, and we will pay him a visit 2-3 times a day, and click around his site. The site must have google adwords to be able to track our activity. I bet his ranking will improve in the next "Florida-like" SERP upgrade :]

    If some of you has such a site, I'd really like to participate in this experiment. Let's repeat the perfect candidate's site features:
    1) does not change
    2) has been for a while with a bad ranking, but is in top 1000
    3) won't change anything in the next month
    4) probable has less that 1000 visits per day(our visits should be statistically significant)
    [That experiment is because I think document usage already plays a role in the rankings, although they are recalculated once in a month or so, and every time we will have a "Florida" thing]
    Cheers

  15. #15
    Senior Member chromate's Avatar
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    Hmmm... I think that last theory is clutching at straws a bit nohaber For google to implement such a thing, it would take one hell of a lot of logging (major implications). The higher docs in the SERPs would also naturally get a higher usage, this would have to be taken into account - again having major implications. I can't see something like this as being even remotely practical for google to implement. Still, I'll participate for the hell of it

    Why would it not be worth moving the site to a different host? Please explain! I need to understand...

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