Signature issues, should guests view them?

**FPU** · 03-05-2006, 12:02 PM

If it is possible to stay on topic without being attacked here I would like to discuss a very important issue that was raised in a thread that was locked by Chris today, that being taking signatures of forum posters out of the view of guests!

This is an issue that many forum members feel strongly about and has been an issue that has affected a few forums of late that took signatures down and put them back up after being exposed for the tactic!

I would like to have an honest discussion about this issue here without all the threats of being banned and having you all say it is a silly issue because it is not silly at all and will affect all forum owners and members!

Some forum owners think that by hiding signatures to guests that readers will stay on the forum longer without clicking out and that less outgoing links will help PR, but with the use of no follow tags PR is not an issue!

What do you think folks ?

**Johnny Gulag** · 03-05-2006, 12:30 PM

I agree with you, forums should allow non regestered users and bots to see signatures.

**FPU** · 03-05-2006, 12:36 PM

Some forums use no follow tags on all signatures and links left in threads and others do not, so what is your feeling on this issue

**Johnny Gulag** · 03-05-2006, 12:49 PM

Obviously I would rather the SE's be able to see links to my sites, no matter where they are. I would also like to take advantage of the sites PR to increase mine.

**FPU** · 03-05-2006, 12:53 PM

For years now forum discussions have mentioned that the search engines discount signature links anyway, so there is little value if that is the case and no follow tags would not hurt anyone a bit, I just want my signature to show as a small payoff for my contributions!

Why do I need 11,000 links from one forum as backlinks, is there a real value there even if the no follow tag is not there

Most posters want something in return for creating content on a forum, that being traffic and publicity for their sites, to take down the signatures from guest view is a crime against your members!

**Johnny Gulag** · 03-05-2006, 01:05 PM

I get lots of clicks from my SP sig and even my sig here now. As I say, "yes I think guests should also be able to see them too" I am just not as concerned with it as you are.

As far as why I post on forums, I dunno. I get an inner satisfaction (a fuzzy warm feeling) when something I post helps someone.

**FPU** · 03-05-2006, 01:08 PM

All members that make an effort and create content that forum owners profit greatly from should never have their signatures taken down period!

By my efforts and those members of the community that support them we have forced two forums to put them back up to guest view!

Sitepoint is next, if they do not put them back up, they will get hit hard by the webmaster community!

**Bleys** · 03-05-2006, 01:22 PM

I don't think any forums have a responsibility to show your signatures. If you don't like it, you don't have to post. At one of my forums we have considered adding rel="no follow" to signatures until people have either X amount of posts or until they have been a member for a certain amount of time. The purpose being to keep spammers who just sign up to get there sig spidered out of the forum.

Certainly, though, there is no obligation that any forum has to its members to display signatures to guests. Personsally, I would rather that most did, but I could care less if they don't (signature links is NOWHERE on my list of reasons to join and participate in a forum).

As for the specific case of SitePoint... Signature links were disabled to guests and SE Bots last April (2005... a little over 10 months ago). It has been common knowledge since then, and the forum's growth has steadily increased. Don't you think if this issue was going to "hit [them] hard by the webmaster community" it would have already? Why did you wait 10 months to start your silly campaign? Can you respond without resorting to insults and ad hominem?

Do a lot of people wish SitePoint would allow sig links to be spidered by SE bots? Yes. Is that issue alone big enough to keep people from posting there? Not by a long shot.

And, for what it's worth, my links there still generate a lot of traffic from within the board--so they do still have a lot of value. Visitors to my site's coming from my sig links from SitePoint alone over the past 5 months have probably generated over $1000 for me. Not a fortune, but I really don't think SitePoint owes anything to me in that regard.

**FPU** · 03-05-2006, 01:26 PM

Sitepoint is the one who has insulted all of their content contributors so if you wish to pull the insult card pull it on the founders, administrators and the webmaster of Sitepoint!

My job is to report on the forum business and that I do by covering issues that are important to forum posters!

If that hurts Sitepoint and the truth damages them so be it!

There are many forums that show signature links to guests like this one and Sitepoint members that have an issue with it can post here and on other fantastic forums where their content is not stolen by greedy and self centered forum owners!

**Chris** · 03-05-2006, 01:31 PM

I don't agree with the practice of hiding signatures.

I probably single handedly did more to popularize the practice of conserving pagerank than anyone else but I would never consider doing it with this forum.

The reasons are many, but in addition to rewarding members I also recognize that the PageRank lost is so small its hardly worth worrying about.

The only type of limit I would consider would be one based on post count whereby users without a certain number of posts would not be able to have a signature. This would simply be to discourage spam.

Sitepoint's reason (public anyways) for doing it was to cut down on server resource usage. I always thought this a poor excuse.

You already have to pull user data to display a post, one more field is not a big deal.

I can sympathize with them as far as it being hard to run a popular forum. This software can really suck down server resources, but I don't think disabling signatures for guests is going to be a major resource savings.

**FPU** · 03-05-2006, 01:33 PM

I agree Chris, many forums including our own have a 10 post minimum before you get a signature or are able to post live links!

One reason is the fact that virus spammers have posted links that forum members click on that load or attempt to load viruses and spyware on forum users boxes!

**Bleys** · 03-05-2006, 01:33 PM

Again, how can SitePoint steal your content? There is nothing stopping you from never posting there, or if you have, you can go back and delete your posts. It's quite simple.

Further, you keep saying you won't stop until you get an explanation from SitePoint's founders, have you tried asking them for one?

http://www.sitepoint.com/contact

If you call their phone number, someone will answer.

You also conveniently avoided my questions. How is it that 10 months ago sigs were turned off for guests at SitePoint, and 10 months ago everyone found out about it and 10 months later SitePoint is growing at a faster pace than ever before? By your logic (that this is a major issue) the forum should have fallen apart by now... You seem to think that no one knows about this issue--that's not true, it is common knowledge--and that you will be the one to spread news of it far and wide. So far, it hasn't seemed like anyone really cares...

Anyway, I don't want to get into an argument over SPF, again, and I don't think Chris wants us to get into that argument again.

The point is... forums can do what they want. When you post something on a forum, you're giving them permission to use it. If you don't like that, don't post it. If you posted something that you want removed, at forums that use vB... like this one or SitePoint, you can go back and delete it.

It's really quite simple and nothing to get your panties in a bunch over.

**FPU** · 03-05-2006, 01:37 PM

The signature issue is one ALL FORUM OWNERS MUST ADDRESS NOW!

This is not just a Sitepoint problem, it is an industry wide problem and we intend to hold all forum owners feet to the fire that engage in content theft and deception, Sitepoint just happens to be at the top of the list at this very moment!

When the founders address my charges and change policy I will have no problems with them, until then, they are public enemy # 1

**Bleys** · 03-05-2006, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by FPU

When the founders address my charges and change policy I will have no problems with them, until then, they are public enemy # 1

Again, why don't you try contacting them? How can they address you if they don't even know who you are?

Also, I respectfully disagree that this is a problem. Most people, as it has already been demonstrated here, don't care enough about sig links for that to sway them one way or another from posting on a forum. And if you do care so much, then just don't post on the forum.