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Thread: Which "Search Term Suggestion Tools" Are Best to Use for Google?

  1. #1
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    Which "Search Term Suggestion Tools" Are Best to Use for Google?

    Just wondering: Which "Search Term Suggestion Tools" Are Best to Use for Google?

    So far, I am familiar with Google Adwords tool, Wordtracker, Overture & DigitalPoint keyword tool...

    Please forward me names of tools (including URL where I can find tool) which will be added value to above mentioned ones!!

    PS - Doesn't necessary to be a 'free' tool, also reliable good 'paid' subscription tools are fine with me!

    Thanks a lot!

  2. #2
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    you've named the industry standards but I also know of a keyword discovery tool by Trellian and a keyword suggestion tool by 7search.

    Having done SEM for sometime now, my personal opinion is that you don't need anything more than one of these keyword tools. Basically none of them give you absolute numbers but rather sampling of web searches. That should be all you need find a set of key phrases.

    The real trick however is not finding the keywords but finding ones that are not overly competitive. Also, you should note that tools like overture are probably the least accurate because advertisers do searches for phrases they just "make up" to see if others are biding on those terms. This creates artificial numbers and sometimes causes unnecessary bidding wars.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jspider
    you've named the industry standards but I also know of a keyword discovery tool by Trellian and a keyword suggestion tool by 7search.

    Having done SEM for sometime now, my personal opinion is that you don't need anything more than one of these keyword tools. Basically none of them give you absolute numbers but rather sampling of web searches. That should be all you need find a set of key phrases.

    The real trick however is not finding the keywords but finding ones that are not overly competitive. Also, you should note that tools like overture are probably the least accurate because advertisers do searches for phrases they just "make up" to see if others are biding on those terms. This creates artificial numbers and sometimes causes unnecessary bidding wars.
    Thanks a lot!

    You mentioned: "The real trick however is not finding the keywords but finding ones that are not overly competitive."

    Any tips here?

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    In theory its good, but in practice it doesn't always work out that way. The terms that aren't competitive usually are pretty low volume or low quality. On the other hand, I do recommend "picking your fights." For example, there is no way you'll rank for poker, but you might be able to rank for poker related terms with far less volume.

    One of the best approaches to take is test a keyword's conversion quality by running an adwords campaign and then optimizing on what works best. If your business plan consists of running a site for Adsense revenue this approach may no make sense, otherwise your just playing a guessing game.
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  5. #5
    Sean
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    Statistically speaking, you want a keyword which has the lowest possible competition and the highest possible amount of searches. The problems is that "competition" isn't really an exact measurement.

    Chris talks about this in his keyword article. He calls it Keyword Effectiveness Index. He uses the PageRank of the top search result for the competition variable. Other things you could use are: # of sites indexed for the top result, # of search results, # of backlinks for the top result or anything else like that. PageRank would probably be the most accurate of these, but if you could create a formula that uses all of these "variables of competition" to make one number to represent competition, it would increase the accuracy.

    For comparing keywords, Chris' system plots the keywords on a pair of axis(pl?) and puts a gradient behind them so whichever is on the darkest spot on the gradient is the most effective. I would take the number of searches and divide it by the number you're using to represent competition to get an effectiveness number for each keyword. For me, it's better/more accurate to just compare 2 numbers than try to tell which spot is darker on a gradient. For a more visual people, the gradient might be better.

    An example of how I would do it, if you have a keyword with 100 searches and a competition variable (possibly PR of the top result) of lets just say 5. You have an effectiveness of 20 for that keyword (100/5). If a keyword has 50 searches and the competition variable is 2, you have an effectiveness of 25... so that second keyword is 1.25 times more effective than the first.

    This is how I would compare keywords... but as I said, the real problem is finding an accurate figure to represent competition. (Maybe someone should make that formula for getting an accurate competition number?)

    Sorry if this is a little too "number crunchy", I've been thinking a lot about efficiency/productivity/statistics/systems so you caught me at a bad time.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean
    Statistically speaking, you want a keyword which has the lowest possible competition and the highest possible amount of searches. The problems is that "competition" isn't really an exact measurement.

    Chris talks about this in his keyword article. He calls it Keyword Effectiveness Index. He uses the PageRank of the top search result for the competition variable. Other things you could use are: # of sites indexed for the top result, # of search results, # of backlinks for the top result or anything else like that. PageRank would probably be the most accurate of these, but if you could create a formula that uses all of these "variables of competition" to make one number to represent competition, it would increase the accuracy.

    For comparing keywords, Chris' system plots the keywords on a pair of axis(pl?) and puts a gradient behind them so whichever is on the darkest spot on the gradient is the most effective. I would take the number of searches and divide it by the number you're using to represent competition to get an effectiveness number for each keyword. For me, it's better/more accurate to just compare 2 numbers than try to tell which spot is darker on a gradient. For a more visual people, the gradient might be better.

    An example of how I would do it, if you have a keyword with 100 searches and a competition variable (possibly PR of the top result) of lets just say 5. You have an effectiveness of 20 for that keyword (100/5). If a keyword has 50 searches and the competition variable is 2, you have an effectiveness of 25... so that second keyword is 1.25 times more effective than the first.

    This is how I would compare keywords... but as I said, the real problem is finding an accurate figure to represent competition. (Maybe someone should make that formula for getting an accurate competition number?)

    Sorry if this is a little too "number crunchy", I've been thinking a lot about efficiency/productivity/statistics/systems so you caught me at a bad time.
    Very interesting reply you gave us Sean. Thanks a lot!

    Basicly, at this time I am more interested in finding keywords with "lowest possible competition and the highest possible amount of searches" as you mentioned for Google Adwords only!

    Most popular search terms are already taken by plenty of Google Adwords advertisers, therefore I am trying to find search terms with less Adwords competition though still enough searches in order to make sufficient leads (advertising networks I use) using Google Adwords!

    To come back to your explanation:

    - What do you mean by using the PageRank of the top search result for the competition variable? This is the site which has nr. 1 position for particular search term?

    - Can you explain a little bit more # of sites indexed for the top result?
    You mean by typing in search box for example "site: www.google.com" which is nr. 1 site for particular search term?

    - By # of search results you mean # of search results comes back after searching for particular keyword? So, I type in search box 'ringtones' which gives me back for example 1,000,000 results top of the screen for search term 'ringtones'?

    - # of backlinks for the top result, by this you mean how many back links nr. 1 site?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Michel Z.; 02-16-2006 at 01:40 AM.

  7. #7
    Sean
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michel Z.
    Basicly, at this time I am more interested in finding keywords with "lowest possible competition and the highest possible amount of searches" as you mentioned for Google Adwords only!
    Sorry about that, I started reading the thread and by the time I got to the last replies I forgot you were talking about adwords and not serp placement. I've done this in a few other threads on this forum too only to realize later that I wasn't on topic. heh

    Quote Originally Posted by Michel Z.
    Most popular search terms are already taken by plenty of Google Adwords advertisers, therefore I am trying to find search terms with less Adwords competition though still enough searches in order to make sufficient leads (advertising networks I use) using Google Adwords!
    Yeah, the same formula would apply, except I don't know much about adwords as I've only poked around a little and haven't read too much on it so I really can't fill in the variables.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michel Z.
    - What do you mean by using the PageRank of the top search result for the competition variable? This is the site which has nr. 1 position for particular search term?
    Yes, for some reason I forgot you were talking about adwords and not just regular search results so the PageRank of the top search result of a specific search term would be one indication of how hard it would be to rank well for that search term.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michel Z.
    - Can you explain a little bit more # of sites indexed for the top result?
    You mean by typing in search box for example "site: www.google.com" which is nr. 1 site for particular search term?
    Yeah, sorry I meant pages not sites, but this one would be much less accurate, but still something that could be considered if you were going to combine several varibles of competition in a formula to find one competition figure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michel Z.
    - By # of search results you mean # of search results comes back after searching for particular keyword? So, I type in search box 'ringtones' which gives me back for example 1,000,000 results top of the screen for search term 'ringtones'?
    Quote Originally Posted by Michel Z.
    - # of backlinks for the top result, by this you mean how many back links nr. 1 site?
    Yes for both of these. I think there are several things (these and maybe some others) that could be combined into a formula for a competion factor for the equation of keyword effectiveness. Chris uses PageRank of the top site and I think that is probably the most accurate of any one variable, but if we could combine them, we could possibly increase the accuracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michel Z.
    Thanks!
    No problem, but I don't think I helped any... just took your thread off-topic. heh

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