Who Says AWS is Dead?

[Kyle]

I'll be sure to not let my shareholders down!

(hears crickets chirping in his 1 bedroom apartment)

[Generalissimo]

Ha ha, your an LLC aren't you, I don't think LLCs have shareholders do they, I think they are 1 person ownerships. I know what you're saying, companies have sole owners and therefore should do what the owner wants, I'm just saying what the laws say that there purpose is to make the greatest profit for shareholders, not to be agents of the owners bidding.

[Kyle]

I'm incorporated. Technically we have shareholders. But give me a break.

[Chris]

To make the highest profit for their shareholders as possible. So in effect being moral at the cost of potential earnings would be illegal.

I'm just saying what the laws say that there purpose is to make the greatest profit for shareholders, not to be agents of the owners bidding.

Maybe the Laws according to Sean.

Thats a gross misstatement if I've ever seen one. Corporations are constantly being held accountable for immoral actions they committed in the pursuit of more profits. Furthermore there is absolutely nothing illegal about not pursuing profits to their fullest. If that is what the majority shareholders want then you could lose your job, but it certainly isn't illegal.

Do you honestly think an excuse like "I was just trying to get more profits." would hold up in any court? You'd be crucified by a Jury if you said that.

Also, FYI, an LLC can issue shares for up to 20 members (owners/shareholders).

[Generalissimo]

Sounds like the equivalent of a partnership in the uk, where there can be upto 20 partners, only difference is an LLC has limited liability while a partnership does not.

I admit fully that I have been arrogant and denied things in this thread that I shouldn't and I realise that these have led to a lot of anger.

But to say that corporations are often held accountable isn't considering a lot of things, I'll bring up one example, General Motors made around 80,000 people redundant and moved their jobs to Mexico where it pays about 20% of the former wages, I can't remember anyone bringing a court case against them (or maybe they did, I just don't remember it). The only thing that happend was a lot of negative press in the left wing sections of the press.

[Chris]

And Pacific Gas & Electric allowed Chromium 6 to get into local water supplies and was successfully sued for over 300 million. Lately many big name CEOs have gone to prison for cooking the books. Microsoft was fined exactly how much by the EU? All these companies did immoral things, the profit excuse didn't seem to work for them.

[Generalissimo]

Ah, but they broke the law...

[Kyle]

Sean your initial point was that you don't have morals when it comes to business. Is this why, to emulate them? This is what business is to you?

[John]

It could be argued that you did too when you stole chris's ideas.

[Generalissimo]

To me companies are legally structures to make a profit. They will try not to brake the law as there are fines for doing so which will damage profits, but really they are pathological in their pursuit of profit because of their legal structure. I don't like it, I don't think many people other than Milton Friedman do. Businesses are immoral unless it is in the interest of profit to be moral (For instance Pfizer do a lot of sponsoring, but by doing so people trust them and buy their products).

[Generalissimo]

It could be argued that you did too when you stole chris's ideas.

Chris does not have a patent on his site, I have not breached any trademarks, I have not stolen any of his original text graphics coding or other intellectual property. Hard to claim I've acted illegally.

[Generalissimo]

I've just remember a legal case that shows that companies are only allowed to do one thing. It's from the early 20th century, the company involved was Ford which decided to spend it's profits on improving conditions for it's workers I think. One of the shareholders sued and won on the arguement that the law requires the company to make the money for it's share holders rather than being philianthoric. The name of the suer was Dodge, and he used the damages he recieved to set up his own car manufacteur...

[jonnyhilfiger]

To me companies are legally structures to make a profit. They will try not to brake the law as there are fines for doing so which will damage profits, but really they are pathological in their pursuit of profit because of their legal structure. I don't like it, I don't think many people other than Milton Friedman do. Businesses are immoral unless it is in the interest of profit to be moral (For instance Pfizer do a lot of sponsoring, but by doing so people trust them and buy their products).

What a load of hogwash. I think you've been reading the wrong books.

So by starting a Ltd company I am by definition immoral unless i choose a moral path.

There's no legal obligation to make a profit for a Ltd company, a limited company is privately owned, what the directors of that company do with the money or lack of it is entirely up to them. They have a legal obligation to submit company returns, accounts and other admin duties, thats all.

PLC's on the other hand may be treated differently but I don't ever recall a case of someone getting a criminal conviction as a direct result of not making a profit.

Looks like this thread is now on it's 3rd tangent.

John

[MarkB]

See, this is why I haven't started my Ltd company. As soon as I do, I just know i'll begin stealing ideas, lying, cheating, kicking old ladies on the bus, and pour arsenic into school water fountains. I don't WANT to, but hey.

[Chris]

Chris does not have a patent on his site, I have not breached any trademarks, I have not stolen any of his original text graphics coding or other intellectual property. Hard to claim I've acted illegally.

Only the copyright owner is allowed to make a derivative work, considering how you asked Mike to make parts of your site like mine and how you asked your designers at DO to emulate my site I think its quite possible a jury could decide that you did make a derivative work.