SE spammers using blogs

[Cutter]

Yep, you are leaving money on the table if you do not at least test out the content network. Due to smart pricing you will usually end up spending significantly less per click than you do on the SERPs.

That being said, "contentless" pages do convert. People only arrive at scraper pages through search engines. In fact, now they have to click twice to get to your site -- that means they really are interested in what they are looking for.

Am I say spam is alright? No, I'm just saying it isn't worthless. Search engines are the ones that really have to worry. As a publisher, its a pain in the butt, but spam has no longevity in this game. Right now a spammer might be pulling in $50,000 a month of his sites, while I'm pulling in a couple of thousand. But, I know that 5 years from now those sites will be worthless, while I might be having people begging to buy mine.

[moonshield]

Yep, thats the way to look at it. Its a game of patience and long term return.

[yo-yo]

The technique works like this: create a blog on Blogger or Blogspot. Make posts with keyword links to their SE spam site.

Actually, there's a much better technique. You buy a program that automatically creates your blogger accounts (you can make 100 or so in 10 minutes), then you upload your site map to every one of them in the blink of an eye (rel=nofollow is removed btw), and finally you automatically ping all of them.

The result = A 20,000 page site fully indexed in 3 days

If you find any spam sites click on the "Ads by Goooogle" and type in spamreport with a description. Besides getting banned they should lose any Adsense revenues.

That's not very nice. Just because you play white hat doesn't mean you should go around reporting everyone who doesn't.

[michael_gersitz]

Reporting spammers will only help the network.

[Cutter]

If I'm trying to rank for a keyword and someone's doing something I know is against some TOS or is illegal, I'll report them. There is nothing wrong with doing that. I'm not sitting here at my computer all day looking for these people, but if I happen to run into a site and its in my niche, it will get reported. Not nice is abusing blogspot and the search engines.

[yo-yo]

If I'm trying to rank for a keyword and someone's doing something I know is against some TOS or is illegal, I'll report them.

I see, like the infamous Adsense Police ...

There is nothing wrong with doing that.

Hurting someone elses bottom line... you know not all spammers are rich.. some even have families to feed...

but if I happen to run into a site and its in my niche, it will get reported.

I see, so it's only a problem when they're competing with you (and ranking better)....

Not nice is abusing blogspot and the search engines

Abusing the search engines? Yes.. god knows those billion dollar corporations need all the help they can get!!

How about the search engines running all over webmasters? How about Adsense dumping publishers who do nothing wrong? These big companies use and abuse us all day long, but if someone uses them it's wrong??

What it really comes down to - is that you're annoyed they're ranking better than you. I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything.. I just want my opinion out there...

[Chris]

Spam hurts all of us.

Invalid clicks mean a lower ROI For advertisers. Then advertisers start buying less, and then all publishers are hurt.

Spammers are like cancer. The cancer might be in the stomach, and we might be up in the head, but if we don't put a stop to it it'll spread and the whole body will be in jeopardy.

This is why it is so important for the webmaster community to self-police as much as possible, and yes that includes reporting those who knowingly break the rules.

[yo-yo]

Spam hurts all of us.

Actually it's one of the main reasons search engines have to keep improving, thus making better results for users...

Invalid clicks mean a lower ROI For advertisers. Then advertisers start buying less, and then all publishers are hurt.

HOLD IT RIGHT THERE.

Just what on earth makes you think they bring INVALID CLICKS? Are you trying to say that because someone clicks from a spammy page they aren't going to buy?

That is probably the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. I could call all of your clicks "invalid" because you blend them into the page, thus TRICKING users into thinking they aren't ads..

In reality, a click from a targetted spammy page is JUST AS GOOD to an advertiser as a click from a white hat page. Unless you're talking about people who force clicks, use redirects, refreshes, etc.. and then it's fraud.

If you think spam doesn't convert I suggest you search for "cheap viagra" on google and see what the first 10 results are

[Chris]

It has to do with the quality of the visitor.

When I said invalid clicks I thought we were talking about adsense spam, not serp spam. I guess it was your whole "How about Adsense dumping publishers who do nothing wrong? " comment that made me think that is what we were talking about.

But serp spam, email spam, etc all brings in a lower quality of visitor than clicks from a good content site.

And it still hurts too. Spammers spam, search engines introduce filters, and invariably some good sites get trapped by the filters too. Also the opinion of the populace as to the usefulness of the Internet lessens.

If you make your money online then anything that tarnishes the image of the Internet is bad for your business, that is a fact.

[Cutter]

Hurting someone elses bottom line... you know not all spammers are rich.. some even have families to feed...

Irrelevent, in order for them to rank, they are bumping someone else's ranking. If someone want a stable income, relying on search engine traffic is a very bad choice.

[yo-yo]

But serp spam, email spam, etc all brings in a lower quality of visitor than clicks from a good content site.

Ok let me get this straight....

Bob #1
Bob #1 searches for "payday loans" in google and visits your great content site full of information and sees your adsense ads that say "apply for loan here" and he clicks it.

Bob #2
Bob #2 searches for "payday loans" only this time a spammy made for adsense site is ranking, and he visits the page. Bob #2 sees an adsensee ad that says "apply for loan here" (exactly what he's looking for) and clicks it.


Care to explain how Bob #1 is a "higher quality" visitor than Bob #2? He's not.. both clicks are targeted and both Bob's got what they were looking for. Either one is JUST AS LIKELY to apply for that loan and convert for that advertiser. It's just easier for white hats to complain when they believe differently

[Chris]

Bob #3

Bob is searching for football scores, he clicks a site that was cloaked and redirects him to a viagra site. He is intrigued by the ad copy, so he clicks an ad. However, since bob wasn't in viagra buying mood, he just wants to see who won an NFL game, he quickly leaves the advertiser's site.

Bob #4

Bob visits a crap scraper site with nothing but incoherent content and adsense ads. He clicks on an ad, not because he really wants to visit the advertiser's site, but because he is finding nothing of us on the site he is currently on. He eventually leaves and tried Teoma instead of Google.



But like I said, anything that tarnishes the image of the Internet, like spam, will eventually hurt publishers in the pocketbook as consumer confidence in the Internet drops.

You can make sites for adsense, that isn't spam. Spam is duplicate content, cloaking, keyword stuffing, redirects, fake content, or anything else that misrepesents the nature of your site.

[chromate]

yo-yo, perhaps you're not an AdWords user, so maybe you don't get it.

The quality of traffic is different. Using your example, who is more likely to click, bob 1 or bob 2? The answer is bob 2. Why? Because when people surf the web they're naturally looking for a path to get the information they're after. If someone lands on a page full of spammy trash (ie, auto gen articles) they're instantly looking for a way to click off the page to something more interesting, and you can bet the spam site has made the adsense links look like an "inviting escape route"

If I'm an adwords advertiser, do I want people looking for an escape route or do I want someone who's perhaps read a good article on pay day loans and after being informed, then decides to click on the "apply for pay day loans" link? I think you know the answer. It's obvious which one will convert better.

It may sound like I'm being picky here, but when you're dealing with thousands of clicks a day, and each one is costing you $0.50+ a time - these things matter immensely.

This is why many advertisers (including myself) switch off delivery to the content network. This is not good for anyone in the end.

... so yeah, spam sites hurt everyone involved, apart from the spammer.

Hope that helps you see things a little differently.

[yo-yo]

yo-yo, perhaps you're not an AdWords user, so maybe you don't get it.

Last month I spent $5,346.00 on Adwords. $3,820.00 of that total was spent on the content network.

It's obvious which one will convert better.

If both visitors were looking for the same thing then I don't see any difference.

This is why many advertisers (including myself) switch off delivery to the content network. This is not good for anyone in the end.

That's actually great for me, I'm paying $.25/click average for highly competitive keywords ($35/click bids in overture) on the content network and they're converting excellent.

[yo-yo]

Bob #3

I agree - redirects to sites that are untargeted are crap.

Bob visits a crap scraper site with nothing but incoherent content and adsense ads. He clicks on an ad, not because he really wants to visit the advertiser's site, but because he is finding nothing of us on the site he is currently on. He eventually leaves and tried Teoma instead of Google.

Why would bob click on something he wasn't interested in instead of just hitting the back button...

Spam is duplicate content, cloaking, keyword stuffing, redirects, fake content, or anything else that misrepesents the nature of your site.

Duplicate content and keyword stuff don't neccessarily misrepresent a site. If I have a site about watches and I have articles (that hundreds of other sites have) about watches, how is that bad? If I stuff keywords that say "watches for sale, great watches, designer watches, etc that is not misrepresenting my site....

I fully agree about redirects and UNTARGETED traffic, that is spam.