Has anyone experienced any of it? It's definatly getting out of hand, there is so much more of it now, I wish Mr. Blunket would force councils to distrobute far more of the A.S.B.O.s to offenders
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Has anyone experienced any of it? It's definatly getting out of hand, there is so much more of it now, I wish Mr. Blunket would force councils to distrobute far more of the A.S.B.O.s to offenders
Maybe if they tackled the source of the problem, rather than the problem, things would get better.
The source of the problem is poorly organised family units. The only way to solve the problem is to have tests on parents and if they fail taking the children away from them to be brought up in collective homes run by the government.
Another source is the media, cartoons and comics books encourage violence, when I was younger I watched the history channel, the programs watched by the youth of today are violent cartoons in the main. Another problem is the abusing language on tv, channel 4 has recently started using the word for female dog often in its programming for youths.
Another source of the problem is low income, the only effective ways of dealing with his are higher standards of education, such as those in Canada described to me by Saad (thebillionaire), or a communist state, which I would support.
So the problems are capitalist and libertarian. The solution is communist and authoritarian. Looking at the political compass Stalin seems in a good place.
the only way to stop the problem is by using more severe punishments, its past the stage of parents as were on the 2nd and 3rd generation of scallies now so its technically not their fault they dont know any better. Although saying that i orignally come from a bit of a bad area (moss side anyone?) but had a good family and ive not gona down the same street as most of my school friends, and with hard work it proves you dont have to stay in the bad areas, theyre just lazy and out for what they can get, if the world was a much harder place then they would soon sort themselves out, in my opinion scroungers should be taught how to fix the rail lines that way we get our trains back on track for nothing :D
Infact, the BBC is just as bad with it's childrens programming, and the presentators with their, um, youth elitism, it is encouraging anti-social behavour, especially 'Dick and Dom'. After being harassed on the bus today by a gang of youthes I really do I want this problem solved, I no longer feel safe to use public transport, and for me that means about an hour extra travel every working day, which means an hour less working for my business, which who knows means how much lost profits.
I'm thinking community service would be good punishment for people who commit anti-social offences. It adds back value to the community they have abused and shows them what they do and so they learn not to do it again.
aaah the problems on buses ive had, im not a fighting person i tend to talk my way out of it but ive had 3 fights on buses cos a group of loud mouth scallies think theyre good in a group, its great when the whole bus stands up to them and kicks them off
Jesus, Incka, what newspapers do you use to be dribbling such inane conservative dogma?
So what's the problem? Broken homes, violent cartoons, or poverty?
I grew up in a broken home, watched many a violent film and cartoon, and am from the depths of the working classes, but I'm not a thug - nor are any of my friends, all from similar backgrounds (except my wife, who was blessed with two parents who actually stayed together).
The problem is economic on one hand, yes, but that doesn't excuse the behaviour of middle class thugs that like to kick in the heads of Asians.
It comes down to providing infrastructure, especially after-school programs for youth, to give them something else to do other than stand around street corners, getting bored.
As a tax payer I wouldnt be too happy about working all day to pay for other peoples children to be raised 'properly'*, then come home in the evening and have to raise my own children (when I have them).Quote:
Originally Posted by incka
*Currently childrens homes hardly have a great reputation for disciplining kids well, theres one not far from me, and theres always burnt out cars near it from the kids out joyriding...
I think a major factor is population density, these problems always appear to be much worse in areas with high numbers of people, where kids can feel anonymous - the village where I grew up, most people knew you or your parents, so you kinda kept that in mind....
I do agree with Mark though on you "dribbling such inane conservative dogma" Incka, communism is hardly the solution - the problems we have in this country are nothing compared to the ones they had/have in communist countries...
I really think though that offenders should get a lot more community service type punishments, and prisoners should be doing manual labour to pay for the effort needed to punish them - I stay on the right side of the law, why should I be paying when other people step over it?
Oh, and couldnt you get a taxi Incka? Im sure it would be even quicker than the bus too..
hey, political discussion? I have a site for that! policyradar.com
Communism is a solution? Captialism is the problem?
Okay, give 75% of your income to other people who don't work and need money. Seriously. Even though communism isn't UK's official system, it doesn't matter, YOU can still make a difference. Go give 75% of your money to people you don't know and let them spend it how they want. If you believe in communism that much, do it.
But you won't. Because you want to keep the money that you make.
From an academic stand point if the worker found value in the work alone they would not need montary compensation.
The problem with that is that the world still needs toilet scrubbers and poultry plant workers.
Violence on TV never hurt me none. IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU ANY MORE F*KING VIOLENT! *beats the crap out of everyone--twice*
I think that we really just need to have VALUES instilled into people. Other things can't really be helped, in my opinion.
I'm not sure which history channel you were watching growing up incka. It sounds to me like you are manifesting your personal problems in political beliefs. Everyone has gotten in fights or been harassed by someone at some point in their lives. Some of us for longer than we wished. If you learn to deal with your anger realistically it will save you a lot of grief and stress in the long run.
Seriously -- violent cartoons are a problem but Stalin wasn't such a bad guy? I'll take a moderate crime rate over a ruler that murders millions of innocent people any day.
Communism fails, it is a proven fact.
Certain forms of it fail (ie: Marxism), but other forms won't fail
I think the main problem, at least around the areas I've lived in, is pure boredom. Most youths want to hang out with big groups of friends. Feeling popular is important to them. No parent wants large groups of youths in their house. So where do they hang out? Petrol stations, street corners etc.. anywhere with some street light. Then of course the problem is, there's nothing to do. Then they discover it's fun and exciting to cause trouble under the protection offered by being in a group. There's obviously no excuse, but having something set up for them to do that isn't seen as "un-fashionable" would go a long way to help the problem.
The other problem is parents. It seems like half the time they don't really care what their kids are up to. The worse their kids get, the less they want to have anything to do with them. If the parents don't sort their kids out, then it's left up to the Police. Hence the "anti police" culture amongst youths.
I know this is unpopular, but I do think video games, TV etc do play a part in the problem too. Maybe not to you and me, because of the environment we live in. But if you're already in a bad environment and all you see, or want to see, on TV is crime, violence, disrespect etc then that will play a part in re-inforcing the current environment you're living in as being the norm. I'm not suggesting that these things get "banned" though, I'm just saying that I think they DO play a part. To suggest that you're not influenced by a film / music is kinda naive. After all, you listen / watch to emote some kind of feeling you enjoy.
http://www.chavscum.com/ :)
Err what? You mean Leninism. Which really is modern day Communism. Marxism has never been implemented. Marx had always intended for Communism (his version) to take place in an industrialized society, not an agricultural one such as Russia and China (at the time), both of which tried and failed. The reason was because industrialized societies would are tight communities which have the foundation for a welfare state. The welfare state is one of the most critical ideas to come out of the Marx era. Remember Marx learned alot from the French revolution, which showed simply that without a social net, the division of the upper and lower class would grow, which would trigger a revolt, the lower class would replace the upper class, and the cycle continues.Quote:
Originally Posted by incka
The key idea, which was never implemented, is that there should be job/worker rotation. This would address the “toilet cleaning” issue. The idea is that you work to benefit society as a whole. Job rotation is important for two reasons. One, there was never a shortage of workers in a particular area and two redundant work hurts mans ambition, which leads to poor work.
Probably the worst implemented idea was the division of wealth to the people. Since many dictators used communalism as a platform to win the majorities support, which were lower class, starving agriculturalists. Once in power, they took all the wealth, but never properly redistributed it to the people.
Basic economics will tell you that any modern democracy is a pseudo-capitalist one where the foundations of which was built on the ideas of socialism.
All forms of communism fail. They have one fundamental flaw. Human nature. There will always be some people in the party who want more than their share. Once they do the system will fail. It has happened every single time so far and will continue to. socialism has a far grater chance of surviving that communism, especially when it is tempered with a healthy infusion of capitalism.Quote:
Originally Posted by incka
I'm like Mark, I grew up in a broken home too, as did most everyone I know. One of them did end up anti-social and violent. But so were his parents. Broken homes and violence on TV don't create violence. Violence is a cycle that gets perpetuated from parent to child or other traumatic events. Some people are violent at their core and, despite the media blaming it on TV and Movies, these people would have had triggers anway. The real issue is Media. These aren't new problems. They have always existed. Now we have 24/7 media to show us the problem at ever turn when in the past it was hidden away because we lacked the communication channels to spread the word. Not only that, the media sensationalized this kind of "news" because it sells. Many cities have had crime rates that have gone steadily down in the last 20 years. See: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance.htm#Crime
If we have a problem, it is with the media.
You seem to be well educated on this subject. I readily admit that I am not, but you've sparked my interest now...Quote:
Originally Posted by The New Guy
To me it would seem that job rotation wouldn't work so well in an industrialized society due to the specialization required for someone to do certain high-level jobs well. For instance, if computer programmers are spending part of their time doing manual labor, then who is programming the computers during that time? People would become "jacks of all trades and masters of none," and production would plummet. Was this issue ever addressed by Marx?
I grew up with Mario killing creatures brutally by bashing them over the head with his body, Metroid shooting aliens, Bomberman killing other people with explosives, 007 shooting someone with a rocket launcher, the Master Chief blowing the CRAP out of a bunch of grunts with a plasma grenade... I've grown up with all of these violent movies and video games. Because I have the proper values instilled in me, and a good home life, I'm not violent. I like kickboxing and punching punching bags, but that's just fun for me. I don't go picking for fights, don't carry around a knife (though I should start, just for protection because this town's getting PRETTY SCARY to walk home at 4:00 in the morning in) and I don't vandalise. Either do any of the other people that I know grew up with violent video games and movies. I think violent people are more caused by violent parents, and troubled home lives than anything else. And people who don't get enough attention from parents, and figure out that news spreads fast that if they "kicked a guy's ***", and they can get attention that way.
lol, where I live, the city commisoner is extremely critized because he said "urban blacks live in a moral sewer".
I think the heros people are coming up with have something to do with it. Personally I never really had heros, I never needed them. BUT when a kid thinks '50 cent' is cool for being shot x times, what limit can there be to the madness.
I dont believe that communism in any form works. I am a pure capitalist. Capitalism gives us the ability to do what we are doing right now, and survive. Entreprenurialship is encouraged. In a communist society the state is what must be supported.
my US$ .02
Hey let's not get so far ahead of ourselves :DQuote:
Originally Posted by incka
I grew up on Marvel Comics, played video games all day, grew up
poor, had a dysfunctional family and I turned out quite okay
[quote}when a kid thinks '50 cent' is cool for being shot x times, what limit can there be to the madness.[/quote]
Good point.