sandbox proof based on my definition

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Originally Posted by KLB

Unrelated links don't seem to hurt me, I've sold them for a long time and still do. It was links to bad neighborhoods that hurt. And anyone who knows what co-op is knows that it often contains links to bad neighborhoods. I'm absolutely certain it was bad neighborhood links that hurt me. I say this because my other "unrelated" links stayed on my site and it recovered just fine once I got rid of co-op.

Also, sites have "unrelated" links on them all the time. Think of all the affiliate programs we link to and syndication links we put on our sites. We also routinely link our sites back to our "main" web developer site via a "site developed by link". It would be really hard to penalize a site for unrelated links without having undesired consequences. However, penalizing sites for linking to bad neighborhoods would be quite easy.

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True true... but we'll save examples of sites getting their pagerank spreading abilities blocked for another debate! I guess it is all about your level of paranoia. No good data here either way.

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Originally Posted by KLB

Seriously though, I gain way too much knowledge from communities like this to turn my back on them. Even when we seriously butt heads we can still learn something once we finally swallow our pride. I may be quick to anger, but I'm also quick to forgive. Holding a grudge is counterproductive.

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I am very quick to anger as well, we definitely have that in common!

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Originally Posted by KLB

Kyle, I do really like your thinking overall and I think we all can learn a lot from you. So don't take the occasional head butting personally. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs and we can't have a spirited discussion without a few misunderstandings.

Oh and you're right there are not enough old school webmasters left around. Sometimes I long for the days before WYSIWYGs when webmasters had to actually know the difference between a tag and an attribute.

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Thanks Ken, misunderstandings happen. The subject matter of this made it more heated than a normal misunderstanding.

Ya I miss my old site on Geocities, I even remember the old URL www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2100. They didnt have a wysiwyg then, just some generic template choices or coding it by hand.

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Originally Posted by Kyle

True true... but we'll save examples of sites getting their pagerank spreading abilities blocked for another debate! I guess it is all about your level of paranoia. No good data here either way.

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Yep another debate, although blocking of the spread of PR to other sites is different from penalizing a site for linking to unrelated sites the way Google penalizes sites that link to bad neighborhoods.

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Originally Posted by Kyle

I am very quick to anger as well, we definitely have that in common!

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I think it is a common trait among those of us in this business. Lots of high IQ's, big egos and lack of patience due to answering the same damn questions too many times. For me the button that pushes me over the edge is the whole sandbox issue, I'm sick of people coming up with bizarre conspiracy theories to justify their lack of instant success when in reality it is because they created an MFA site with virtually no content.

I had put tens of thousands of hours of hard effort, sweat and tears into my site before it started turning into a commercial success. Noobies coming into this game and expecting to "instantly" get rich by putting up a crap site just sets me off.

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Originally Posted by Kyle

Thanks Ken, misunderstandings happen. The subject matter of this made it more heated than a normal misunderstanding.

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I've been more irritable than normal this past couple of weeks so I'm a little quicker to crank up the heat than normal. Just lots of little frustrations combined with the extraction of my wisdom teeth has made me really irritable.

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Originally Posted by Kyle

Ya I miss my old site on Geocities, I even remember the old URL www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2100. They didnt have a wysiwyg then, just some generic template choices or coding it by hand.

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I had a Geocities site, just to play around with. It really sucked. I first started coding in 1995. My site was on a college NeXT server and I would telnet in and use pico to edit my html. Talk about a brutal way to code. It was a bit like walking to a mile to school each day in blinding blizzards and having to walk up hill in both directions. :lol: For me migrating to notepad was a major leap forward.

I think i have a sandbox problem in my 1 year website. No traffic from google, but get tons of traffic from yahoo and msn.

Probably not related to the sandbox as defined originally in this thread or as is commonly defined. Instead, you should look at on page factors that Google may be penalizing you for (e.g. links to bad neighborhoods, over doing SEO, etc.).