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chromate
12-18-2003, 05:51 AM
There was a similar post on sitepoint. I thought it'd be interesting to know what peoples aims are in these here parts :)

I hope to churn out a few more sites and make at least $1.5k a month. Basically, I wanna make enough to be able to live off my sites :) I'm gonna try and break into the affiliate side of things as my sites are all AdSense only, at the moment...

Mike
12-18-2003, 10:06 AM
By this time next year I hope to be earning around 500 - 1000p/m. I'm earning around 100 a month at the moment.

chromate
12-18-2003, 10:18 AM
You'll do it no problem if you keep working at the same rate. Just create 5 new sites that perform the same and you've achieved your target :)

I hope you'll even exceed your expectations. It would be great if everyone here done really well. Success enjoyed all round would speak volumes for this site too!

Chris
12-18-2003, 11:55 AM
I need to open a Spring Break site that is almost done. I need to create a second ecommerce site. I have a couple other site ideas as well.

Mike
12-18-2003, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by chromate
You'll do it no problem if you keep working at the same rate. Just create 5 new sites that perform the same and you've achieved your target :)

I hope you'll even exceed your expectations. It would be great if everyone here done really well. Success enjoyed all round would speak volumes for this site too!

Good luck to you as well chromate:)

I hope to open a UK travel site soon. I got quite a few detailed reviews already, so everything should be completed by the end of January I hope.

chromate
12-18-2003, 01:19 PM
Cheers Mike.

I would LOVE to do an ecommerce site in 2004. In fact, I may make that one of my objectives. :) Need to raise some funds first though.

emke
12-18-2003, 01:20 PM
By this time next year I'll have at least 10 web sites (currently 3) and make about $2 000/month.

At least I hope so... :D

Mike
12-18-2003, 02:34 PM
Oh I would love to run an ecommerce site as well chromate. Got a few ideas, but can't really afford it at the moment:)

I think this site will help achieve a lot of goals though.

michael_gersitz
12-18-2003, 06:29 PM
My goal is $300 a month, and produce at least 1 sucessful website per month.

Currently 7. (working on making them all profitable)

chromate
12-19-2003, 04:24 AM
I'm surprised you're not making more than $300 a month already.

Shawn
12-19-2003, 09:13 AM
Yeah, that comes as a shock to me too.

Hell man, I'm making multiples more than that with Wireless Phone Reviews alone. The first month my site was up (not in search engines) I made most almost that much.

Work on quality, not quantity. Don't just pump out sites left and right.

Mike
12-19-2003, 10:14 AM
Shawn, are the CPC rates good for wireless phone reviews?

Westech
12-19-2003, 10:16 AM
My goals are to finish all of the plans I have for NSUforum.com and start promoting it, publish at least one of the other ideas I have rolling around in my head, and finish my hosting website. (I started a webhosting business a little over a year ago and have a good number of customers through word of mouth, but I've been so busy with other things that I've never finished up the webiste for it! I know it's pretty silly, a hosting business without a website!)


Originally posted by Shawn Weeks
The first month my site was up (not in search engines) I made most almost that much.


Shawn, where were your visitors coming from if not from search engines?

chromate
12-19-2003, 10:17 AM
I would imagine they would be v. good.

Didn't think you'd quite be making multiples of $300 though -- nice going! :) heh

Shawn
12-19-2003, 10:28 AM
Westech, I said the *first* month my site was up I wasn't in search engines.

I won't comment on the CPC, but the sheer amount of traffic is what is earning me the money. You won't believe the amount of visitors I've been getting, for a 2 month old site.

Westech
12-19-2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by Shawn Weeks
Westech, I said the *first* month my site was up I wasn't in search engines.

I understand. My question was where were your almost $300 worth of visitors coming from during that first month when you weren't listed? ;)

Westech
12-19-2003, 10:51 AM
EDIT: Double post. Sorry.

chromate
12-19-2003, 10:57 AM
How many uniques are you getting now Shawn?

Mike
12-19-2003, 11:37 AM
Yeh, how many if you don't mind answering Shawn?

Also about the CPC. What I meant to ask, is it a lot (such as travel, loans etc)?

Shawn
12-19-2003, 03:48 PM
It's not up there with travel or loans, but it's a good chunk. PM me if you want more info.

Traffic this month so far is about 10,000 unique visitors for Wireless Phone Reviews, pretty good considering a 2 month old site with very few pages (like 75) and no advertising. My PR6 isn't even in consideration with the search engines (since Google hasn't updated the SERPs with the new PR).

Imagine this thing in 6 months.

Mike
12-19-2003, 04:23 PM
Around 500 uniques a day already is quite amazing. I've pm'd you by the way Shawn.

chromate
12-19-2003, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by Shawn Weeks
Traffic this month so far is about 10,000 unique visitors for Wireless Phone Reviews, pretty good considering a 2 month old site with very few pages (like 75) and no advertising.

Wow 10k already this month! Like you say, for a 2 month old site, that's extremely good.

Do most of your visitors enter through your 75 different sub-pages or is the majority through your home page?

lo0ol
12-19-2003, 06:13 PM
I'd like to work on greatly expanding my sites and then work on popping a couple more out. I'd like to triple the amount per month I am currently making by next December.

Best.Flash
12-19-2003, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by chromate
I thought it'd be interesting to know what peoples aims are in these here parts :)

Like most in this thread Im looking to (within the next couple of years) live off the revenue from sites I own :D

At the moment just got the one site but its doing very well traffic wise, been averaging 5000 - 6000 uniques (15 - 18k page views) a day for this year which cover's the rent and keeps me in beer/ingredients for Thai Chicken :)

Been researching a finance site for the past couple of months (not all the time ;-) hoping to get a working version setup over Christmas.

Chris
12-19-2003, 08:13 PM
My real goal is to develop my ecommerce business. I want to process over a million dollars next year.

Best.Flash
12-19-2003, 08:23 PM
< waiting for Jeff Bezos to pop into this thread and raise the bar even further ;)

Shawn
12-19-2003, 09:27 PM
Chromate, about 20% of traffic enters through my homepage.

Not many know this, but I've only been website publishing (producing sites for myself) for less than 3 months. It all started here: http://www.sitepointforums.com/showthread.php?p=934126#post934126


Chris is the sole reason I am on the track I am today. He's showed me some errors with my site in the past, some that I didn't like, a couple I even called him a douchebag (not to his face) for even suggesting. But, eventually, I made all the changes he's ever suggested and created my website using the knowledge from this site. And only this site.

I'm going to be very successful because of Chris and I think many others can be as well. Unless you are physically disabled and are not able to type on a keyboard, you are able to make as much, if not more money, than Chris or anybody else for that matter. All that matters is how much you want it. If you're willing work for it, you can get as much money as you want. Period.

At the very least, everyone can damn sure hit the goals they posted in this thread of a small $500-$3,000 a month.

I know I will -- and very soon at that.

incka
12-20-2003, 02:23 AM
To set up the music video site and several others including an ecommerse site. To make by the end of the year 1k per month.

Mike
12-20-2003, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by Chris
My real goal is to develop my ecommerce business. I want to process over a million dollars next year.

It wouldn't surprise me if you achieve that, or achieve something even better.

chromate
12-20-2003, 04:36 AM
Well... it's sounding like an ecommerce year ahead then for a lot of us then. Now, if we can just get those funds together to kick it off! If only I didn't have so much on my credit card already. :)

incka
12-20-2003, 05:04 AM
I'm getting 5 an hour for an Niche Timbers online shop making + 10% of the online shops profits, so that should help me get towards the amount I need as they only started in September but did about $40,000 of business last month...

chromate
12-20-2003, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by Shawn Weeks
Not many know this, but I've only been website publishing (producing sites for myself) for less than 3 months. It all started here: http://www.sitepointforums.com/showthread.php?p=934126#post934126


I remember reading that post well. I was feeling exactly the same at the time. That last post vialli made:



Another rapidly expanding market is Mobile Content.


Was that what made you decide to do wireless phone reviews?

Mike
12-20-2003, 08:14 AM
I remember reading it as well...

incka
12-20-2003, 09:18 AM
So let's post some more of the sites we plan to do:

Yorkshire Travel
Music Videos
Walking (Possibly)
Segways (If Amazon Lift That $10 Maximum Commision As Is Expected)

Shawn
12-20-2003, 10:18 AM
No, that didn't make me start Wireless Phone Reviews.

Chris mentioned the idea.

incka
12-20-2003, 10:34 AM
Did Chris also suggest Satellite site?

Shawn
12-20-2003, 11:31 AM
Neg.

incka
12-20-2003, 12:04 PM
Own any other sites?

Shawn
12-20-2003, 12:32 PM
Yes, 1 more, but I don't anyone to know about it -- yet.

lo0ol
12-20-2003, 12:41 PM
I like how every seems to have a secret site or two. In the end, we all know it's just a porn site.

:)

incka
12-20-2003, 02:00 PM
How did you know :o

Shawn
12-20-2003, 06:35 PM
Nope, no porn. Just extremely high paying. ($5-$30 PER click).

No bull.

Ronny
12-21-2003, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by Shawn Weeks
Nope, no porn. Just extremely high paying. ($5-$30 PER click).

No bull.

How the hell...? Can you handle us your secrets?



Your publishing aims for 2004?

As to that, I would like to start with getting around 400$ / month, and after that maybe reach the 1k or above... AND, it would be extremely nice to have PR7 or above on the home page and PR5 (now have 4) or above on the inside pages.
Not so high demands, I don't want to be disappointed... If I see I'm getting to my targets I'll set them higher though. :D :cool:


Yesterday my pal and I made a decision to start a new version, number 3 of our site, after reading most (havn't finished yet) of Chris' wonderful articles - Our current version just doesn't have anough SE support and in general not comfort and simple enough. I'll tell more after I tell that to my own users on my site... :eek: :cool:

Mike
12-21-2003, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by Shawn Weeks
Nope, no porn. Just extremely high paying. ($5-$30 PER click).

No bull.

That's either loans, hosting, medicine or travel then:)

I'm making a travel one at the moment.

Ronny
12-21-2003, 02:54 AM
Whatever, on any topic - How can one get $5 to $30 per CLICK?

Shawn
12-21-2003, 03:54 AM
Think big. Much bigger than loans, travel, the usual.

BIG.

incka
12-21-2003, 04:15 AM
Mmm.. Big... Debt!

Or maybe... Mmm... What's Big... Real Estate?

chromate
12-21-2003, 04:31 AM
Viagra :)

Shawn
12-21-2003, 04:52 AM
That's small. Bigger. Bigger than real estate. Bigger than million dollar beach homes.

chromate
12-21-2003, 05:07 AM
Viagra? Small? <cough>

err God? :)

Ronny
12-21-2003, 06:04 AM
Countries for sale? Slaves in stocks? Brand new nuclear heads? How big can it be?... Bigger than real estate, damn!

incka
12-21-2003, 06:38 AM
It's got something to do with either big companies office space for sale in big cities or the stock market...

incka
12-21-2003, 06:58 AM
I searched on google adwords... The highest I got was $1.01 for Viagra...

We all must be wrong so far...

incka
12-21-2003, 07:02 AM
Interestng:

debt 770.0 4.39 3,372.98 1.1 suggest keywords / delete debt loans 20.0 5.89 117.78 1.2 suggest keywords / delete debt management 42.0 6.31 264.80 1.2 suggest keywords / delete debt relief 23.0 6.83 156.92 1.1 suggest keywords / delete hosting 2,100.0 5.05 10,598.24 1.2 suggest keywords / delete loans 1,700.0 4.66 7,910.60 1.3 suggest keywords / delete

incka
12-21-2003, 07:03 AM
Now I see why at least one of us has a debt management site...

chromate
12-21-2003, 07:15 AM
Are you trying to fill a whole page of posts all to yourself or something Incka? If you have an after-thought, try using edit to add to your original post, if it's along the same lines, in future ;)



Now I see why at least one of us has a debt management site


I've had one in the works for ages. I just never get around to finishing it. In fact, I've just realised I have 5 incomplete sites. I don't know what it is, but I seem to lose enthusiasm for them once I get to a certain point :/ To pull this thread back on topic, I think I'll make that another one of my objectives for 2004... complete all my half-complete sites! lol

Where did you get those figures? AdWords account? I've not used it yet myself. Looks like it could be useful though.

Mike
12-21-2003, 07:18 AM
Originally posted by chromate
Viagra :)

Yer, it could be that. Can't think what else it could be.

incka
12-21-2003, 07:21 AM
I've got something to add to my 2004 objectives. To have an Debt Management Guide site up with google adwords on it...

Mike
12-21-2003, 07:54 AM
I was going to do something like that, but for one I didn't know what to put on it, and two it would be too hard to get traffic through search engines.

incka
12-21-2003, 08:12 AM
I've started already...

My design so far is ace... Just it looks too much like another site of another website publisher here...

chromate
12-21-2003, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by Mike
I was going to do something like that, but for one I didn't know what to put on it, and two it would be too hard to get traffic through search engines.

That's partly why I lost interest in completing mine. Traffic would be low due to the big "debt consolidation" companies occupying the top spots. However, with high CPC rates, you probably wouldn't need *too* much traffic to make it worth while. There're so many people with debt problems, it may even be worth looking at offline marketing. If the site offers decent content, then you could leave leaflets in Citizens Advice Bureau etc. :)

Ooooo... here comes another objective for 2004. Create a site that's not dependant on search engine rankings for traffic. Wouldn't it be nice to be free of having to worry about google updates, PR and getting backlinks! Yes. Definitely. I want a site I can market offline for 2004. Hmmmmmm...

incka
12-21-2003, 08:45 AM
The 4.50 average was for the USA.

It is 14 average in the UK per click.

Someone is registering a domain tonight... And it is so keyword rich and rememerable im surprised only the .com had currently gone...

Mike
12-21-2003, 08:53 AM
I think loans.com was sold for 3M a bit ago. That's how competitive the market is.

Also incka, do you mean you are registering a loans domain?
There's loads out there like loan-guide.info etc.

incka
12-21-2003, 09:47 AM
No.

A debt management .co.uk domain aimed for the UK market because the UK market gets 3 times what the US market gets on Debt Management google adwords and because I live in the UK.

Shawn
12-21-2003, 12:11 PM
Okay, I'll be more specific.

Think more of the lines of $400 million -- think of people who make hundreds if not thousands of dollars an hour -- those are the people who can afford to pay several dollars per click.

I'll release the site to everyone in a couple of days.

Westech
12-21-2003, 12:20 PM
Professional athletes? Movie stars? CASINOS?

Ronny
12-21-2003, 12:42 PM
OK, now it's easier, we need to find people with a LOT of cash:

Casinos
Just the top level, the men with the yachts
Gangsters
Lottery winners :-P

OK, I'm giving up, never thought about that kind of rich people lol...

Shawn
12-21-2003, 01:18 PM
None of the above.

C'mon guys, think. Who are the richest people in your area?

Mike
12-21-2003, 01:21 PM
In my area? The council:)

Ronny
12-21-2003, 01:22 PM
Hey, what do you know, maybe your advertisers are gungsters? :-P kiddin'.

In my area? The Pizza guy I suppose, maybe some lawyers and some stock-sellers. And remember the topic of this thread - I hope that till the end of 2004 I'll be one of the richest people in my area ;-)

Shawn
12-21-2003, 01:27 PM
Ronny is the closest so far.

Mike
12-21-2003, 01:29 PM
Solicitors?

Ronny
12-21-2003, 01:30 PM
I hope that I was the closest just in my last post, because I offered Pizza, gangsters, terrorists, lottery winners... :-P

So, it is or something to do with courts - lawyers, big cases, something like that, or something about stocks (Somebody brought it up before so i don't think that this is the thing).

incka
12-21-2003, 02:00 PM
Enterprenuers?

incka
12-21-2003, 02:02 PM
Bill Gates, Richard Branson, etc.

And eventually all of us hopefully :)

chromate
12-21-2003, 02:15 PM
Incka, what did I tell you about repeat posts!? <SLAP> :) hehe

Yeah, can't be stock brokers because that was said before I think. Gotta be business directors etc. Business advice? Business loans? etc etc

I'm not making any more gusses now. Time for the answer...

incka
12-21-2003, 02:22 PM
It murmurs... Some people post hundreds of time in a row there... It's having a bad effect on me... BTW: I'm in the murmurs top 50 users now :)

On my Debt Relief Site - I've finnished the design, and I'm now considering the content. I will warn you in advance that it looks quite a bit like one of Shawn Weeks sites and abit like some of Chris' sites... It does not look identical though, Shawns sites all have certain promonent elements that mine does not. And it is only similar to Chris' sites in small ways...

I can't wait to start writing the content... I think this site will be a good one to use offline marketing on, as already had been suggested, leaflerts in citizens advice bueros...

Westech
12-21-2003, 02:39 PM
Inca, you might want to hire a proofreader before you start distributing your leaflerts in citizens advice bueros. ;)

Ronny
12-21-2003, 02:41 PM
Hehe, YOU got at least one misspell on that post ;)

incka
12-21-2003, 02:53 PM
Well, Umm, I use spell checks when I write articles and leflerts because I use word...

Spelling isn't my fortai... I'm good at english, just my spelling is terrible... Well not that terrible, but you know, theres alot of words that I don't type that much so...

Ronny
12-21-2003, 02:55 PM
It's OK, I won't kill you, not today :)

Mike
12-21-2003, 03:06 PM
Anyway, can't you give it away tomorrow Shawn?:)

I got a whole day of doing nothing, and the suspense is killing:p

Westech
12-21-2003, 03:09 PM
I'm just playing with you inka. I think you have a pretty good idea with the debt relief site too!

lo0ol
12-21-2003, 11:00 PM
Shawn, you even have perked my interest. Unfortunately it looks like you'll have 40 new competitors within a week of posting it. :)

incka
12-22-2003, 02:27 AM
I know you are Westech... :)


I can't wait to finnish the site, it's actually quite interesting writting the articles, although I've only written one so far as the main focus of yesterday was on design...

Mike
12-22-2003, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by lo0ol
Shawn, you even have perked my interest. Unfortunately it looks like you'll have 40 new competitors within a week of posting it. :)

I won't be a competitor. If someone had a new idea for a site on here, I wouldn't be competing with him.

incka
12-22-2003, 03:54 AM
Yes, I won't copy a site, unless I am generally interested in the topic (like games2go) or found that I could make loads myself (like the debt one)...

chromate
12-22-2003, 04:23 AM
It's not the regular posters that I would be worried about, it's the lurkers. Who know what they'd do :)

incka
12-22-2003, 05:09 AM
Yes, I don't like lurkers much... Unless I know them...

Wrigh_g doesn't post anymore but he still reads... But don't worry, he is more intersted in learning programming languages than actually making sites... He hasn't even got a domain...

I've found another use with a debt site... But it isn't fully made... http://www.debtmanagement101.com I think it was... Not very well designed and only a line of comtent for each thing, so I think that was a 'future project' for that person...

Mike
12-22-2003, 05:30 AM
Originally posted by incka
Yes, I won't copy a site, unless I am generally interested in the topic (like games2go) or found that I could make loads myself (like the debt one)...

That's even worse. Shawn's told us that it's going to make loads, so that means that your going to copy it?

incka
12-22-2003, 05:37 AM
I meant I won't copy a site if someone's told me about it. I may see someone has site that is similar to one I already had plans for and not stop my plans, but I won't make plans for sites based on other peoples sites on here.

Shawn
12-22-2003, 05:38 AM
I don't mind having competition -- if I did, I wouldn't announce the site. I will just make sure I will be able to beat the competition before I release the site to all you guys.

I should release the site within a few hours.

incka
12-22-2003, 05:42 AM
I am abit interested in making a site about starting a business, but that is obviously not what Shawn's is, because he said $400 million, and that what established businesses have...

Can't wait...

Shawn
12-22-2003, 07:46 AM
Coming soon.

Westech
12-22-2003, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by Mike
I won't be a competitor. If someone had a new idea for a site on here, I wouldn't be competing with him.

I respect you for that, Mike, and I wholeheartedly agree. My sense of honor prevents me from jumping on the great ideas that I see floating around in here.

Example: I've been trying to think up site topics with high revenue potential and relatively low competition that I actually have some knowledge of (makes writing content much easier! :) )
I see Shawn's wireless phone reviews site, and think "*doh* I used to work in the wireless industry! Wireless phone reviews is such a great keyword phrase! Look at all the money he's making in such a short time! I could have done that. Why didn't I think of that? Part of me wants to grab his idea and run with it. But like Mike and I'm sure most members here, I can't bring myself to do it.

Oh well, I think, What other niches are out there that interest me and I have a good knowledge of? Still thinking... Oh well, I'll go kill some time on websitepublisher.net while I'm thinking... Then I see a new site in Shawn's signature -- satellite TV! :eek: Now that's off limits too! Too bad I didn't think of it first. I have a feeling the whole vicious cycle is going to repeat itself once he announces his new site... :rolleyes:

So once I go public on here with my great ideas none of you had better try to steal them!

incka
12-22-2003, 09:12 AM
I'll think of some for you...

How about widescreen tvs?

Expensive wires for hi-fis?

Portable Grils?

DVD-Writers?

DVD Players That Can Write DVDs From TV?

Feel free to use my ideas on the condition that I can use them too.

incka
12-22-2003, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by Shawn Weeks
Coming soon.


Oh come on... Or we will start using google to search for your name and some keywords or look at your sites backwards links...

Shawn
12-22-2003, 09:19 AM
Won't work. :)

incka
12-22-2003, 09:51 AM
The backwards links of wireless phone site didn't work...

Westech
12-22-2003, 11:05 AM
Thanks, incka. I had actually been considering dvd writers and may use that in the future.

GCT13
12-22-2003, 11:14 AM
To answer the original thread topic: I hope to expand on my Amazon Web Services offerings, both in my sites and expanding the functionality of the application behind it. Later next year I want to tackle a full ecommerce site.

Now back to Shawn's Super Secret Blockbuster Site That Will Make Webmasters Weep thread... :)

Shawn
12-22-2003, 11:22 AM
I'm still working on it. Hopefully it'll be out today.

GCT, maybe you could offer a service to other webmasters for setting up Amazon Web Services -- you could give sites that you've setup as a reference (I wouldn't mind). You could make some good money there.

Yoda
12-22-2003, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by incka
Spelling isn't my fortai...
Can't...resist...too...ironic...

Forte. :)

incka
12-22-2003, 11:47 AM
I knew I spelt it wrong... lol... I partly did it on purpose...

Can't wait for this site to be told of...

kdb003
12-22-2003, 12:51 PM
why is there so much hype?

incka
12-22-2003, 01:01 PM
We just love hyping things up. It's the nature of website publishing enterprenurs...

A Quick Question:

Do you feel www.debtmanagementguide.co.uk is a good name for my Debt Management site?

chromate
12-22-2003, 01:20 PM
Referring to the "stealing ideas" thread... I agree. I would never take someone else's idea from here. The great thing about Website Publisher is that we all support one another's ventures. Competing with someone from here would just be going too much against the grain and would kill all motivation anyway.

For instance, how I would love to create a coupon site. It's an affiliate dream purely because you know the users are looking to buy something. It's totally out of the question though as it would be like trying to stab Chris in the back. Though, I'm sure he'd pull a CB Sword and behead me before I even got close anyway (and rightly so) :)

It's the people that don't make any posts that I worry about, because I can't judge their characters.

Now then... I think this thread should be split into two separate threads. "Your publishing aims for 2004" and "Shawn's Monster Site." Chris? lol

incka
12-22-2003, 01:28 PM
Aren't you going to answer my question chromate?

chromate
12-22-2003, 01:31 PM
If you're targetting those keywords, there's nothing wrong with it, assuming this is going to be your site name.

incka
12-22-2003, 01:33 PM
Yes, got any other suggestions though?

chromate
12-22-2003, 01:36 PM
like what? :) I haven't seen your site yet. So no. :)

incka
12-22-2003, 01:50 PM
The google ad borders and the headers for the articles are the same colour of the background, just my JPG compression didn't work well...

The top buttons turn to having a black text and a blue (same as the background) background...

You will see the copyright footer thing when I've launched the site.

http://www.incka.com/debtmanagementguidescreenshot.jpg

chromate
12-22-2003, 01:55 PM
Can you not upload an image to your web server so we can have a look? Also, I call for yet another thread "Incka's debt management site" !! :)

incka
12-22-2003, 01:57 PM
I've uploaded it to my new hostony account which now has incka.com on it... Uploaded very quick I must say... And the email services is the fastest I've ever seen...

chromate
12-22-2003, 02:00 PM
You're right, it does look quite a lot like Shawn's ;) However, your content looks good.

incka
12-22-2003, 02:03 PM
I PMed Shawn and explained what the site looked like, he said it was fine and he was glad to have fans... But he hasn't seen the screenshot yet...

chromate
12-22-2003, 02:05 PM
That's nice of him. Maybe give a little creadit to him in your footer or something.

incka
12-22-2003, 02:06 PM
I will in the links section. Like I'm giving credit to the BBC and website publisher.

chromate
12-22-2003, 02:09 PM
I always thought that it's not fair that we can't use BBC content. It should be public domain... Considering we pay for it!!!

incka
12-22-2003, 02:10 PM
I'm not copying it, I'm using it to help me...

And what about that Freedom Of Information Act?

incka
12-22-2003, 02:30 PM
Mike - what do you think of my proposed domain name and do you have any suggestions for other domains I could use?

Mike
12-22-2003, 02:36 PM
Ok, I haven't posted in here for a while so I'll post my views;)

Copying Ideas - I have two ideas at the moment. If anyone out of the blue launches a site on either topic I will carry on with them. No matter what anyone else would think, I would know that I had that idea, so I wasn't "stealing" so to speak. I would never copy someone elses site though. I agree about the coupons site chromate, I would like to do one but as you said, it's like stabbing Chris in the back:)

incka - Like the design. Not that much like Shawn's, just the logo and menu.

BBC - The good thing about the beeb is that they do allow you to reproduce their content on your own site. Email them and all they ask is for a link in return on the actual article. Good stuff if you ask me.

Shawn - HURRY UP AND TELL US WHAT YOUR IDEA IS!

There. That's everything:)

chromate
12-22-2003, 02:36 PM
Incka, do you think you could create a new thread to discuss your new site. No disrespect intended! It's just this thread has got way out of hand and way off topic.

Mike
12-22-2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by incka
Mike - what do you think of my proposed domain name and do you have any suggestions for other domains I could use?

I like the domain. Good keywords and quite easy to remember.

incka
12-22-2003, 02:39 PM
Oh come on chromate! Let's try to make the first four figure thread of website publisher - and you started it Chromate... If this becomes the next sitepoint you'll become a website publishing forum member legend...

incka
12-22-2003, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by Mike
I like the domain. Good keywords and quite easy to remember.

Got any other suggestions for domains or should I go get my dads credit card and knock 10 off my wages?

Westech
12-22-2003, 02:42 PM
Chris is going to have quite a time sorting this thread out when he checks the site again!

chromate
12-22-2003, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by incka
Oh come on chromate! Let's try to make the first four figure thread of website publisher - and you started it Chromate... If this becomes the next sitepoint you'll become a website publishing forum member legend...

Haha. Well I don't have a problem with it, cause I've been following the thread all the way through. It might be better to split the thread up, just for those users (and future users) that haven't ;) Oh well, Chris is moderating it's up to him! lol :)

Westech
12-22-2003, 02:44 PM
So, what did everyone think of the new Lord of the Rings movie? (just kidding) :D

incka
12-22-2003, 02:44 PM
You just quoted that without a reply...

incka
12-22-2003, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by Westech
So, what did everyone think of the new Lord of the Rings movie? (just kidding) :D

I haven't seen it yet, or the second one...

I saw the first one last night...

I was also expecting Golum to shout out of the cave 'Fast Click is best for popunders while Burst or Tribal Fusion are best for Adverts'... :o

chromate
12-22-2003, 02:46 PM
I edited out my original reply by pasting your original post quote over the top of it (if you follow). I've combined the two now! heh

incka
12-22-2003, 02:47 PM
So should I go register that domain or do you have any suggestions... I would like at least one suggestion...

Westech
12-22-2003, 02:50 PM
Suggestion: Use wordtracker.com to find the keyword terms with the highest KEI. Then register a domain with those keywords and optimize for those keywords. Loans and debt consilidation are extremely competitive terms and you'll get slaughtered if you don't find a niche in that area with less competition.

incka
12-22-2003, 02:52 PM
Just say something... And I'm using that google adsense thing to find keywords... Debt Management is searched alot...

Mike
12-22-2003, 02:54 PM
This thread is long:o

If this was sitepoint I'd hate to be a mod:) There'd be that many posts that need to be edited, moved and joined...omg.

It has been the (or one of) the most interesting threads yet on here though.

Westech
12-22-2003, 02:55 PM
Actually, now that I look at it there isn't much competition for debt management guide. The top site in google is a PR 4. If there are a decent number of searches for those terms you may have a winner there.

incka
12-22-2003, 02:57 PM
There is enough to make a decent amount (I.E. 1000 a day if all the searchers go to my site and click the highest google ad on the pages which are optomosed to the keywords of debt loans...)

incka
12-22-2003, 02:58 PM
You can get a PR of 4 from your sig here if you post like Me, Mike, Chris and Chromate here just from this site...

incka
12-22-2003, 03:01 PM
I'm off to get a credit card and get everyone on murmurs and sitepoint to join the forum and post here... (Theres a thread on murmurs with over 50,000 posts in it... :o )

incka
12-22-2003, 03:05 PM
Is easily.co.uk working? I can't seem to get on it...

Mike
12-22-2003, 03:06 PM
You can get a PR of 5 easy if you use the links from here well, and cross link all your site. You don't even need any sites linking to you I bet.

incka
12-22-2003, 03:10 PM
Got it working... It's registered... And I did check my spelling...

Mike
12-22-2003, 03:17 PM
debt management guide is not searched much you know, five times according to wordtracker. i wouldn't call it a decent amount.

something like debt consolidation would be better. searched over 4000 times according to wordtracker, and the top rank is a PR5 with others around being PR6. not that bad considering how much you could make from it.

chromate
12-22-2003, 03:30 PM
Yeah, searches on "debt management guide" are pretty few in number. Debt management would probably be your primary keyword phrase. You should at least get on the first page with that (if you work at it a bit). $1k a DAY is no way a realistic expectation though.

Mike
12-22-2003, 03:40 PM
Yup, making $1k a day is a little ambitious:) Even Chris doesn't manage that, yet.

And where's Shawn got to?;)

Westech
12-22-2003, 03:48 PM
I think the mafia got ahold of him for trying to cut into their territory with his mysterious new website.

lo0ol
12-22-2003, 03:49 PM
Someone should learn about the "edit" button. :\

emke
12-22-2003, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by lo0ol
Someone should learn about the "edit" button. :\

Agreed. Very annoying... :rolleyes:

Chris
12-22-2003, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by Mike
Yup, making $1k a day is a little ambitious:) Even Chris doesn't manage that, yet.

And where's Shawn got to?;)

You sure?

I haven't made $1k per day for an entire year or anything like that. But lately I've passed that level for some months. To be honest, if Google hadn't change their algorithm I probably would have made atleast 2k per day in December.

chromate
12-22-2003, 04:30 PM
I guess that would have been down to your ecommerce store. Shame google screwed up just before Christmas.

Chris
12-22-2003, 04:39 PM
Nah, CB swords is doing very well. My coupon site is what is suffering.

With CB swords I've processed $130k worth of sales since Oct 15th. Thats gross, not net.

chromate
12-22-2003, 04:42 PM
Still, $130k turnover since Oct15th. Wow. Nice going!

kdb003
12-22-2003, 05:52 PM
does this forum have rules?

like no blatant conversations between two people ;)

Shawn
12-22-2003, 06:21 PM
I'm still here. Girlfriend didn't have to work today (she was suppose to) so I had to "entertain" her needs this afternoon.

I am working on it again!

Shawn
12-22-2003, 10:29 PM
It's up.

Mike
12-23-2003, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by Chris
You sure?

I haven't made $1k per day for an entire year or anything like that. But lately I've passed that level for some months. To be honest, if Google hadn't change their algorithm I probably would have made atleast 2k per day in December.

No, I meant even you don't make $1k a day off one site.

Well, you may do actually.



does this forum have rules?

like no blatant conversations between two people

It's general chat for gods sake:D

incka
12-23-2003, 02:55 AM
I'm not sure about your new site... It seems like your making money off cancer...

incka
12-23-2003, 03:07 AM
I revoke that statement from reading 'most people come into contact with asbestos (which often causes mesothelioma) at work' on your site.

Those companies should be sued. Good for you Shawn making a site for the victims to use.

chromate
12-23-2003, 04:30 AM
Yeah, quite an interesting site actually. Should be able to get that one in the directories without too many problems aswell.

incka
12-23-2003, 07:10 AM
Yeah, and the google ads just look like the page... Very well done I must say...

Mike
12-23-2003, 09:54 AM
It is interesting. I had never even heard of the cancer before.

Shawn
12-23-2003, 10:10 AM
Gads!

incka
12-23-2003, 01:09 PM
Gads means????

Westech
12-23-2003, 03:04 PM
I'll bet it means "Holy crap I've already earned $5,000!" :)

incka
12-23-2003, 03:08 PM
I can't wait to be able to say gads...

MarkB
12-24-2003, 07:03 AM
How do you find out the 'value' (ie, CPC value) of keywords? I see Overture mentioned - do you need to be one of their publishers or advertisers to see this?

Mike
12-24-2003, 07:41 AM
You can see roughly by using adwords. Just following the steps to signing up, which includes choosing keywords.

incka
12-24-2003, 07:48 AM
It can be misleading though, as you could search for debt loans, while the google adsense targets the ads on your page to debt management, and therefore you have a different amount of commision... Do overture have a thing like adsense?

Westech
12-24-2003, 08:17 AM
http://uv.bidtool.overture.com/d/USm/search/tools/bidtool/?Keywords/

Of course overture bids won't necissarily be identical to what adwords pays for the same terms.

lo0ol
12-24-2003, 11:29 AM
Great link, Westech. I was wondering where I could get that info as well. It won't be what AdWords advertisers pay, but it should give an accruate comparison.

Westech
12-24-2003, 12:23 PM
And just in case anyone doesn't have it, you can check keyword popularity at http://inventory.overture.com. Wordtracker is probably more accurate, but I think overture is good to get a quick estimate or compare one word against another without going through all the crap that wordtracker makes you go through.

Best.Flash
12-24-2003, 02:00 PM
Wordtracker's great if your sites going for a global reach but I wouldn't recommend it for country specific (UK and europe) keyword popularity.

incka
12-24-2003, 02:02 PM
Do overture do a program for webmaster to make money from like Ad Sense?

Best.Flash
12-24-2003, 02:06 PM
Yes but you need a large amount of traffic (sites generating more than 1 million Web searches a month) searching your site to be considered for their Partners Program.

http://www.content.overture.com/d/USm/about/affiliates/index.jhtml

incka
12-25-2003, 09:32 AM
OK...

Just for the record: I've had an idea to make an online library for years before I knew of this website, any of Chris' websites or Chris himself. I proberly won't make a competing site, but if I do eventually, I've explained that it was not this site that made me do it.

Ronny
12-25-2003, 09:35 AM
lol!! :)
You forgot to add "DISCLAIMER" (or maybe disc-lamer??? ;)) on the top..

incka
12-25-2003, 09:39 AM
Hey! Or should I say Straw!

Ronny
12-25-2003, 11:10 AM
lol :-P Kiddin' :)

incka
12-25-2003, 12:50 PM
Kiddin' or Goatin'? :p

Ronny
12-25-2003, 12:51 PM
"Whatever makes you happy, whatever you want" - Hearing it right now!

incka
12-25-2003, 12:55 PM
"This flower is scorched... This film is on... On a maddening loop... These clothes... These clothes don't fit us right... And I'm to blame... It's all the same... It's all the same" - Wish I Was Hearing It Right Now


The song is Country Feedback by R.E.M.

incka
12-27-2003, 07:12 AM
So what do we all plan to make an online shop of?

I'm thinking several things... So far:

Roofracks for carrying bikes on cars
Puzzle Games (Expensive Ones)

Or, if I have enough money a low cost cd album shop like www.cd-wow.com

MarkB
12-27-2003, 09:14 AM
You would need a LOT of money for a cd shop. The minimum order that most labels and distros requires is enough to kill most plans (they killed mine), particularly if you want enough stock to compete with the big boys.

Mike
12-27-2003, 09:36 AM
Also it would be hard to compete in that market.

incka
12-27-2003, 10:39 AM
OK... How much did they say was their minimum to you?

chromate
12-27-2003, 12:20 PM
You could find a smaller niche within that industry perhaps. Maybe specialise in only selling live albums / concert recordings.

MarkB
12-28-2003, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by incka
OK... How much did they say was their minimum to you?

It depended on the label or distributor. Some have no minimums. Some have 50 per order.

Some have minimum 20 units per order.

While some have minimum 1000 per month to maintain your account.

You could focus on getting small label releases unavailable in the UK except through expensive import - but then you'd really have to target a niche (like Nordic Goth or something).

incka
12-28-2003, 04:52 AM
I wasn't planning on doing a niche... (I use that word so much because my dads company is called Niche Timbers)

I was only thinking of doing a cd shop if I was making in excess of $2500 a month from my sites at the end of 2004.

Mike
12-28-2003, 05:35 AM
I really don't know weather it would be worth wasting that kind of money. People go to big sites to buy cd's now.

incka
12-28-2003, 05:50 AM
Alot of people search kelkoo... All you need for that is a tradedoubler account or an commision agreement with kelkoo.

wrigh_g
01-01-2004, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by incka
Yes, I don't like lurkers much... Unless I know them...

Wrigh_g doesn't post anymore but he still reads... But don't worry, he is more intersted in learning programming languages than actually making sites... He hasn't even got a domain...

I've found another use with a debt site... But it isn't fully made... http://www.debtmanagement101.com I think it was... Not very well designed and only a line of comtent for each thing, so I think that was a 'future project' for that person...

Oi.... i can speek for myself..... i have just been very busy. I cannot afford a domain, and i have quite a few that i dont tell you. I am also planning quite a few!!!!

Sorry it took so long to come back. I have been really busy.

wrigh_g
01-01-2004, 02:14 PM
Oh, and it is my new years revolution to work a lot more on computers (if that is possible lol)

incka
01-01-2004, 03:11 PM
LOL...

You can get a .com for 2 years for less than 10 now from godaddy.com... It's best to buy them now while the rates are so high... When they get back to normal it will be about 14...

chromate
01-01-2004, 03:25 PM
What dya mean "when it gets back to normal" ? .com's from namecheap are about 4.80 at the moment.

wrigh_g
01-01-2004, 03:26 PM
WOW...... i want

incka
01-01-2004, 03:28 PM
Yep... The bad thing about the current exchange rate is my google check isn't worth much...

Mike
01-01-2004, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by chromate
What dya mean "when it gets back to normal" ? .com's from namecheap are about 4.80 at the moment.

It's great isn't it chromate:) I really do reccomend that anybody who wants a cheap domain joins them.

incka
01-01-2004, 03:57 PM
Go Daddy charges $7.95 while namecheap charges $8.88

chromate
01-01-2004, 04:48 PM
Not sure about Go Daddy. But the namecheap interface alone is worth the little bit extra. You could call it a domain management suite! :)

I cashed in my last google cheque and Barclays done the exchange rate as 1.9 !! Means us UK'ers have to work twice as hard.

incka
01-01-2004, 05:01 PM
I know... Its at 1.8 at the moment...

How much does barclays charge for US checks? Lloyds charges 8 I beleive...

chromate
01-02-2004, 04:51 AM
If it comes to over 100, then they charge 9.

incka
01-02-2004, 05:17 AM
Can you get google to hold on to your check until its aboutt $300 ?

DaveM
01-10-2004, 04:56 PM
My goal is to get over $4000/month revenue by Spring Break.

Right now Im doing about 2k.

My fastest growing site is my CellPhoneReviews.net Site. So far about 8000 uniques this month, on pace to make about $400 with adsense and Tribalfusion this month. Need to add amazon to that site somehow :D

I think I read somone in this thread say, don't just pump out sites, and instead put effort into them. Thats exaclty what Ive been doing and it's paying off. Ive never made good money off something Ive created in a day but have made good money with stuff made over several weeks.

chromate
01-10-2004, 04:58 PM
8k uniques this month so far? Excellent work! I had no idea it would generate that much traffic.

DaveM
01-10-2004, 05:27 PM
Yeah - the site is only about 1.5 months old and was picked up by the search engines mid-last month. I guess it's all the links I put to it from my other sites that helped a lot.

PDA-reviews.net is in the making :D

chromate
01-10-2004, 05:29 PM
I was gonna do a PDA review site, but then decided the competition would be too strong.

DaveM
01-10-2004, 05:37 PM
Yeah it is tight, but so is cell phones. One of the main reasons why Im doing it is beacuse I think it will compliment my cell phone review site nicely and cross promotion between the two will be beautiful

michael_gersitz
01-10-2004, 06:36 PM
Wow, I was going to do a pda review site too...

incka
01-11-2004, 03:38 AM
That was one of my ideas for possible amazon feed sites too...

Anyway, more detailed goals:

To get music-videos.ws online with 1000+ music videos and getting over 10,000 unique vistors a day by the end of the year.

To set up a network of personal finance and law sites which ties in with my Debt Management Guide site.

To open at least one amazon store.

To open either an ecommerce store or to set up an online poster store on cafepress.

incka
07-22-2004, 03:10 AM
To set up the music video site and several others including an ecommerse site. To make by the end of the year 1k per month.


Well I've met the 1k per month thing. The music video site won't be done this year. E-commerce site will probably be started early next year. I suppose it was the financial target that I really wanted to hit, and I've hit it with ease 6 months into the 12 month... (June was the month I got 1k)

Mike
07-22-2004, 05:18 AM
I've kinda met my target. It's just not very consistant.

MarkB
07-22-2004, 02:04 PM
My plan this year was to make my old music site generate enough income to make me self-employed. But with the niche it was in, that wasn't possible - so I sold it.

Since the beginning of June my plan's been to generate $100+ a month in non-Adsense income. I think I'll make target this month :)

My other major plan is to (finally!) launche my 'community consultancy' service, which will basically be helping people brainstorm community ideas for their new or established sites, and give them a framework from which to build a unique online community. Should be fun :)

AndyH
07-23-2004, 03:55 AM
My plan is simply to keep everything going up, which so far this year it has been :).

chromate
07-23-2004, 04:00 AM
I easily hit my original target of $1.5k a month. Not so sure if I'll be able to hit the target of having an ecommerce site by the end of the year though. I just think it will be too hard to make anything work being in the UK and using normal SEO for marketing. Problem is, I have no experience in any other form of marketing and shipping to the US will reduce profit margins down to a prohibitory level.

incka
07-23-2004, 04:01 AM
Chromate - I want to start an ecommerce site too, but most customers are in the US, so it will be expensive to ship there, and there is no way I am going to go live in that country...

intelliot
07-23-2004, 10:29 AM
My goal is $1000/month by the end of this year... I am making less than 10% of that now :)

Hope to meet some people on these forums I can work with to help meet my goal.

MarkB
07-23-2004, 10:38 AM
You guys aren't thinking outside the box ;) There is one key, huge market here in the UK that other countries don't necessarily have (at least not in such numbers, or in such a concentrated area).

intelliot
07-23-2004, 10:41 AM
Of course, you're not going to tell us what it is... :)

MarkB
07-23-2004, 10:43 AM
I don't see why I should do people's thinking for them :p Mind you, I'm also desperate for friends, so I'll probably spill me guts sooner or later :p

intelliot
07-23-2004, 11:56 AM
aww, I'll be your friend :) Is it possible to appeal to that market from the US?

incka
07-23-2004, 12:04 PM
Yeah, I like one of the bands you like, I'm a good friend, NOW TELL ME! (heh heh)

MarkB
07-23-2004, 12:30 PM
I'm sure it has a market in the US, but geographically it might be more spread out...

Best.Flash
07-23-2004, 02:19 PM
I don't see why I should do people's thinking for them :p Mind you, I'm also desperate for friends, so I'll probably spill me guts sooner or later :p

Perhaps some of us UK/south east members should meetup for a few drinks... ;)

Chris
07-23-2004, 03:49 PM
You guys are looking at things the wrong way.

Sure, the US is a huge market, but Europe is a big market too. I get people from Europe emailing me all the time complaining about how much it costs to ship to them.

So who says you can't be successful with just a european or UK ecommerce site?

chromate
07-23-2004, 03:58 PM
Well, I guess it's just harder. However, one of my targets for 2004 was to have a site that didn't rely on search engine traffic to be profitable. A UK / europe based ecommerce site would be perfect to publicize in targeted offline publications. I could hit both targets with one site here. :)


There is one key, huge market here in the UK that other countries don't necessarily have (at least not in such numbers, or in such a concentrated area).

Bad weather gear? ;) lol

Mike
07-24-2004, 02:11 AM
Yeah, I think I will just do a UK ecommerce site, advertising offline. It's not going to be until next year when I start anyway.

Still, I haven't thought of anything to sell yet :)

incka
07-24-2004, 03:54 AM
I actually have a few ideas for things that would do well online in the UK and EU, however because they will also do well in the US I worry I will be loosing alot of potential customers who can't afford shipping.

Is charging for content classed as e-commerce? Because I hope soon to do that...

MarkB
07-24-2004, 01:53 PM
Selling anything online is e-commerce. It's 'electronic commerce', innit?;)

intelliot
07-24-2004, 03:32 PM
But you're not really selling the content, per se -- you're probably selling 'access' to it:)

incka
07-24-2004, 03:34 PM
Ah, yes. Access... Mmm... Freshly entered SQL database... Mmm... Tasty...

thebillionaire
07-26-2004, 08:11 PM
My plans are to learn server sockets and create massive multiplayer rpg game like runescape but in flash and diffrent than just fighting and stuff, I can make the game single player but not multiplayer yet so Im learning server sockets to make it multiplayer, but the bad thing about sockets servers are that they are really costly the one Im learning right now is $3000, so I was also creating a game website for sometime which I put on hold to learn socket servers, once my site is up I hope to make the 3k to buy the socket server, but for now Im going to learn socket servers, and create the game.

MarkB
07-26-2004, 10:28 PM
Keyword density for 'socket server' - achieved! :p

thebillionaire
07-27-2004, 08:55 AM
lol //typing more text to publish lol

Chris
07-27-2004, 03:37 PM
I don't know about socket servers, but you don't need anything fancy to run a MUD text based game. You can find code for one that is only about a page long and then the client can use telnet.

thebillionaire
07-28-2004, 10:24 AM
I dont know about you guys but I hate MUD games all text, tried playing one got bored in 20 sec.

P.S whats talent?

MarkB
07-28-2004, 10:51 AM
I love MUD games - especially if they have a good userbase that helps eachother out.

r2d2
07-28-2004, 11:16 AM
I dont know about you guys but I hate MUD games all text, tried playing one got bored in 20 sec.

P.S whats talent?

Telnet? Its like a remote login system (at least, thats what I used it for at uni), more here: http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/T/Telnet.html

thebillionaire
07-28-2004, 01:00 PM
yea but telnet can isnt the best thing to use with flash.

incka
07-28-2004, 01:18 PM
Those multiplayer games get boring with 2 seconds... Can't make any money on them...

thebillionaire
07-28-2004, 02:14 PM
I have to disagree multiplayer online games can make alot money, which is why there's like a new company making multiplayer games every 2 weeks or so.

cameron
07-28-2004, 02:25 PM
Shawn, are you still running your mesothelioma site or did you sell it?

incka
07-29-2004, 03:14 AM
I meant playing them can't make money. Not making them.

Chris
07-29-2004, 08:00 AM
MUDs offer much more flexibility than graphical MMORPGS

Best.Flash
07-29-2004, 09:59 AM
For what its worth there's several good socket sever solutions for Flash you can use with multiplayer games.

junglewar: vietcong and battle for the sudan were a couple of great examples both now closed but at the time where very popular, in vietcong's case - thousands of users online at a time.

As far as how to make money with Flash multiplayer games it wouldn't be difficult, your biggest concern would be how to setup your site/server to cope with the traffic.

MarkB
07-29-2004, 11:09 AM
I meant playing them can't make money. Not making them.
Some people do things purely to have fun ;)

MarkB
07-29-2004, 11:10 AM
If you're able to make high-quality flash games, then offer your services to sites to make branded games just for their audiences.

incka
07-29-2004, 12:47 PM
If you can make flash games PM me. I can offer quite a bit for ones like miniclip that have links to my sites so I get visitors from offering them as free content.

MarkB
07-29-2004, 12:53 PM
I charge $100 per idea :p

Best.Flash
07-29-2004, 01:11 PM
I've built (a non-multiplayer) one you may be interested in Sean, first tho it would be helpful to know what the following sentence means?


that have links to my sites so I get visitors from offering them as free content.