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KLB
11-30-2006, 05:25 PM
So I was over at Webmaster World today and found a couple of really interesting discussions about vBulletin and the duplicate content issues it poses.

vBulletin like so many forum packages is and SEO nightmare of worst practices when it comes to query strings causing duplicate content. I single thread or post can sometimes be access by up to ten different URLs as a result of query strings. :sick:

Here were some tips that were suggested to reduce some of the duplicate content issues:

1) disable the "search engine friendly" archive. All this does is create a duplicate copy of your entire site, which is what we are trying to avoid. Oh and yes Chris you need to disable your archive for this forum.

2) Add the following entries to your robots.txt file This will stop bots from crawling pages they don't need to crawl:

User-agent: *
Disallow: /archive/
Disallow: /attachments/
Disallow: /calendar.php
Disallow: /clientscript/
Disallow: /cpstyles/
Disallow: /customavatars/
Disallow: /customprofilepics/
Disallow: /images/
Disallow: /includes/
Disallow: /login.php
Disallow: /newreply.php
Disallow: /newthread.php
Disallow: /private.php
Disallow: /register.php
Disallow: /sendmessage.php
Disallow: /sendpm.php


3) eliminate the " « Previous Thread | Next Thread » " bread crumb at the bottom of threads. This can be found near the bottom of the "SHOW THREADS" template. The problem is that these two links create two additional copies of threads (e.g. /forum/showthread.php?t=87654&goto=nextoldest). This is bad, very bad and how many people actually notice these links actually exist let alone use them?


The entire threads I referred to can be found at:
http://www.webmasterworld.com/google/3133336.htm
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum30/33094.htm

I love using vBulletin, but it most certainly wasn't designed by someone who had a clue about SEO. :sick:

Todd W
11-30-2006, 06:53 PM
Simple solution: VBSEO

Disabling the archive on a non-seo'd forum is like cutting HUGE profits. Archives work great for putting google ads on top :)

KLB
11-30-2006, 07:08 PM
VBSEO isn't a total solution. You still end up with duplicate content. The archives are by definition duplicate content and this is why they need to be turned off.

Selkirk
11-30-2006, 08:32 PM
3) eliminate the " « Previous Thread | Next Thread » " bread crumb at the bottom of threads. This can be found near the bottom of the "SHOW THREADS" template. The problem is that these two links create two additional copies of threads (e.g. /forum/showthread.php?t=87654&goto=nextoldest). This is bad, very bad and how many people actually notice these links actually exist let alone use them?

These links are a sad waste. They would be much more valuable if they were:

« Previous Thread: Seeking Testimonials | Next Thread: Link Units »

And linked directly to the destination thread instead of relative to the current thread.

This way, they would push PR through internal links with good anchor text. Many vB links are structured this way to avoid unnecessary database lookups, but at the expense of a better UI and better SEO.

Another way they could do that is to issue a 301 redirect for those links, but they don't do that either. Again, a 301 would put more load on the server for bigger forums. It looks like they are erring on the side of performance.

vB really neglects the power of internal links by not using canonical urls.

Erin
11-30-2006, 09:31 PM
I use vBSEO, too. But I wouldn't want to turn off the archives, as it turns out that a lot of people use them from 'lo-fi' access points.

But I find over and over again that the forums just aren't indexed nearly as much as custom content, so I don't worry about it too much.

Todd W
11-30-2006, 10:30 PM
VBSEO isn't a total solution. You still end up with duplicate content. The archives are by definition duplicate content and this is why they need to be turned off.

I've seen study's done comparing forums with archive on and off. Not 1 had the archive "HURT" them in serps for their non-archived pages.

Use VBSEO and DISALBE the archive is what I'm saying... no need for the archive if VBSEO is installed as all pages are seo friendly.

If you don't use VBSEO then keep archives enabled.

Chris
12-01-2006, 07:33 AM
Ahem ahem, how quickly my articles are forgotten?

http://www.websitepublisher.net/article/vbulletin-optimization/

I don't like vbseo for a few reasons.

1. It isn't needed. In the past you may have needed it to have search engines deep crawl your site. But not now.

2. It locks you in. You're changing your URLs from a frequently updated third part piece of software. What happens if VBseo stops being supported? What happens if vbulletin comes out with their own nice-url setup? What happens when you wait to apply security patches so vbseo can catch up?

Relying on two companies to keep producing compatible code in tandem is not wise I think, if someone goes wrong you can lose all your incoming links because all your URLs will change, or you could end up getting hacked because you waited too long to apply a security update.

On the archive, I say not to use it in my article, but I'm testing keeping it on and just cramming ads all over it to see if that makes it worth while. I don't like it because it also isn't needed, and there is nothing on archive pages that keeps people around. No prompt to register, reply, or search for other threads. So it is on in this forum and now that it is likely fully crawled (I turned it on a few months ago) I can add some ads.

Chris
12-01-2006, 07:36 AM
Here is the appropriate bit of code from VB for the previous/next links...


<if condition="!$show['search_engine']">
<br />

<div class="smallfont" align="center">
<strong>&laquo;</strong>
<a href="showthread.php?$session[sessionurl]t=$threadid&amp;goto=nextoldest" rel="nofollow">$vbphrase[prev_thread]</a>
|
<a href="showthread.php?$session[sessionurl]t=$threadid&amp;goto=nextnewest" rel="nofollow">$vbphrase[next_thread]</a>
<strong>&raquo;</strong>
</div>
</if>

I'm wondering if it is already taken care of, do they remove such links for search engines like they remove session ids? I'm not sure what the IF statement is for but I have to guess.

....

Checked the cache, and yes, that either doesn't show up for SEs or doesn't show for non-logged-in users. Maybe it is a new thing with vb 3.6, but I wouldn't worry about removing it.

KLB
12-01-2006, 10:36 AM
Chris I was wondering the same thing about the !$show['search_engine'] comment. My thing about it is that someone somewhere along the way is going to inadvertently or intentionally link to a page via the URL provided by those links, which still posses a problem.

Good article Chris, I hadn't noticed it before.

In regards to adding member pages to the deny list in the robots.txt file another way to deal with spammers is simply to not allow new members to show up in the members list. Only allow people to show up in the members list once they have a certain post count and have been members for a certain number of days. This can easily be done by creating a new user group for "full members" and renaming the existing member group "new members" and restricting its permissions accordingly. Once a member has reached the required thresh hold they can be promoted automatically.

KLB
12-01-2006, 01:20 PM
For those who would like to turn off their vBulletin archive without messing up inbound links (e.g. from SEs) to archived pages, here is a set of .htaccess instructions that will reroute requests for archived pages to the "real" page:

RewriteEngine on
RewriteRule ^archive/index.php/f-([0-9]+).html http://{YOUR_FOURUM'S_DOMAIN}/forumdisplay.php?f=$1 [R=301]
RewriteRule ^archive/index.php/t-([0-9]+).html http://{YOUR_FOURUM'S_DOMAIN}/showthread.php?t=$1 [R=301]

You may need to adjust the directory path and of course put your own domain name in.

Once you add this code to your .htaccess file you can turn off your vBulletin archive via the admin panel without messing up links.

KLB
12-05-2006, 08:31 PM
So I started this very same thread over at DigitalPoint forums and it is amazing how religiously some individuals over there defend and evangelize the use of vBSEO. It is almost like you are insulting them personally when you say that much of what vBSEO does to improve the SEO of vBulletin can be done without vBSEO and that many of the other things really aren't that big of a deal or that at least the long term risk of vBSEO not being properly supported might outweigh the short term SEO benefit one gets from vBSEO.

That is one thing I like about folks here, most of you are sharp enough and experienced enough to look at things more objectively. It always seems that it is the newbies and fairly inexperienced that have the strongest opinions on SEO type issues and are the least able to look at an issue from the big picture or look at an issue objectively.

Oh well, as they say you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Todd W
12-05-2006, 11:34 PM
So I started this very same thread over at DigitalPoint forums and it is amazing how religiously some individuals over there defend and evangelize the use of vBSEO. It is almost like you are insulting them personally when you say that much of what vBSEO does to improve the SEO of vBulletin can be done without vBSEO and that many of the other things really aren't that big of a deal or that at least the long term risk of vBSEO not being properly supported might outweigh the short term SEO benefit one gets from vBSEO.

That is one thing I like about folks here, most of you are sharp enough and experienced enough to look at things more objectively. It always seems that it is the newbies and fairly inexperienced that have the strongest opinions on SEO type issues and are the least able to look at an issue from the big picture or look at an issue objectively.

Oh well, as they say you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Just ask Chris about his recent argument with a moron at SP. It was funny and sad to say the least.

stymiee
12-06-2006, 12:29 AM
So I started this very same thread over at DigitalPoint forums and it is amazing how religiously some individuals over there defend and evangelize the use of vBSEO. It is almost like you are insulting them personally when you say that much of what vBSEO does to improve the SEO of vBulletin can be done without vBSEO and that many of the other things really aren't that big of a deal or that at least the long term risk of vBSEO not being properly supported might outweigh the short term SEO benefit one gets from vBSEO.

That is one thing I like about folks here, most of you are sharp enough and experienced enough to look at things more objectively. It always seems that it is the newbies and fairly inexperienced that have the strongest opinions on SEO type issues and are the least able to look at an issue from the big picture or look at an issue objectively.

Oh well, as they say you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Welcome to digitalpoint. If you ever want to be frustrated by stupidity hang out there. It's just a bunch of kids who believe whatever they want and to hell with whomever disagrees with them.

KelliShaver
12-06-2006, 02:09 AM
Welcome to digitalpoint. If you ever want to be frustrated by stupidity hang out there. It's just a bunch of kids who believe whatever they want and to hell with whomever disagrees with them.

I'll second that.

Chris
12-06-2006, 06:09 AM
Just ask Chris about his recent argument with a moron at SP. It was funny and sad to say the least.
The funniest thing was that by the end of the thread he had actually come around and realized we might be right... that hardly ever happens.

KLB
12-06-2006, 08:56 AM
Welcome to digitalpoint. If you ever want to be frustrated by stupidity hang out there. It's just a bunch of kids who believe whatever they want and to hell with whomever disagrees with them.

There are a some good minds over there, its just that there a few "kids" as you call them that start attacking anyone who dares to suggest anything that might question anything they believe in.:sick:

I think a lot of the riff raff would go away if they would just do what other forums do and shut down their politics and religion forum and prohibit these types of discussions. That forum draws in the worst of society. Get rid of that forum and the others would get better.

Cutter
12-06-2006, 06:03 PM
I've been using vbSEO on my biggest forum. Since I installed it when I first launched the forum I really have nothing to compare it with.

I'm not too worried about lack of updates.. someone would really have to screw up over there to kill it off. They have lots of users and its run very professionally. Worst case scenario, I figure someone buys the business.

I just launched a new vb forum this week, haven't decided if I'll go with vbseo or not. I know the important stuff can be done by hand but I'd much rather just pay the $150, or whatever it is, and not have to think about it anymore.

Todd W
12-06-2006, 09:24 PM
I've been using vbSEO on my biggest forum. Since I installed it when I first launched the forum I really have nothing to compare it with.

I'm not too worried about lack of updates.. someone would really have to screw up over there to kill it off. They have lots of users and its run very professionally. Worst case scenario, I figure someone buys the business.

I just launched a new vb forum this week, haven't decided if I'll go with vbseo or not. I know the important stuff can be done by hand but I'd much rather just pay the $150, or whatever it is, and not have to think about it anymore.

I agree. If vbSEO was free then I'd be worried about future support. It's not cheap as it cost almost as much as the forum itself so i think they will be around for a while/as long as VBulletin. I'mn ot saying anything's wrong with doing some by hand either.