Shoemoney called me out on Markus Frind

[Cutter]

If you read my blog you have probably seen the interview I did with Markus Frind. Today Shoemoney made a post on his blog saying that Markus is a lier, he doesn't make 10k a day off of Adsense, and his site was nothing until he started saying he was making 10k a day.

Do I have solid proof that Markus makes $10k a day? No, the only way I could is if Google specifically said so. Unless there is an Adsense case study on his site I will probably never know.
,
Here is what I do know, his Alexa rank is 837 (http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?q=plentyoffish.com&url=plentyoffish.com) , Websearch puts him at 374 (http://ranking.websearch.com/SiteInfo.aspx?url=plentyoffish.com) , and Hitwise (http://www.hitwise.com/) ranks him as the 5th largest dating site. If that information is correct I have no problem believing he is making $10,000 a day. Of course it could all be faked.

I am looking back into this story and talking to some people. What I can say for certain is that Markus has been going around to a lot of different conferences (http://www.idate2006.com/innerpage-sf.php) telling people about his site and how much he is making. This is a far cry from Shoemoney's claims (http://www.shoemoney.com/2006/05/08/plentyoffish-marketing-101-when-all-else-fails-just-lie/).

As I said, I don't have solid evidence that Markus makes $10k a day off of Adsense. But, I am kind of disappointed that Shoemoney blatantly called him a lier just because he solicited an interview (by the way, I went out of my way and specifically tracked down Markus and asked to interview him, not the other way around.)

The reason I am posting this here and not on my blog is because all of my readers don't need to be caught up in this drama. Once I can get some facts straight (is Markus faking the traffic data or not?), then I will make a post either apologizing to my readers for making a mistake or asking Shoemoney for an apology. For now I'll let it be.

For the record, I like Shoemoney and I have made some good money by following the advice on his blog. If you don't read it, I recommend that you do.

[Hylo]

You won't be the only one with the wool pulled over his eyes if Shoemoney is onto something Cutter. Markus has been tooting his horn on many a blog and podcast recently and if he is faking his traffic/earnings then it'll be a shortlived money making exercise for him I think.

I read Shoemoney's piece but he doesn't seem to have any evidence to back his own claims up. Have you found anything in your investigations so far?

[Cutter]

I haven't found anything that proves otherwise yet. I had already looked into this pretty closely before even posting my first story about his site. The only thing that remotely makes sense is that shoemoney pointed out he isn't using the premium adsense ads, which he should be for the amount he's making. However, someone else posted a comment that shoemoney should know there could be an explanation for this since he himself was kicked out of their premium publishing program.

The way I see it Markus is drumming up publicity so someone buys him out, not to get a bunch of backlinks from every blog on the internet. And if he wants a buyout, then why lie about this stuff? Of course I could be wrong.

What annoys me the most is this has turned into some big dramatic pie throwing fest of name calling. Someone made a post here calling out Jon a few days ago; even then I said don't call someone out until you have some serious evidence. I did my due diligence on Markus, the story fit, so I posted the story. If someone has some evidence to the contrary I am eager to hear it.

[Todd W]

I heard a podcast that said he wouldn't sell for $20million. :crash:

[AndyH]

I don't believe it for the simple fact that i'm in denial. :p

[Emancipator]

amen brother Andy, preach! :)

[vahsi000]

Someone made a post here calling out Jon a few days ago...
It's ok, you can quote me or say my name. Also, I too did my research before making my post, although i was going to post the reason why i was so suspicious on my thread but it quickly died out.

I did a reverse-ip check on aojon.com and i found about 3-4 myspace websites, what made me suspicious was the fact that there weren't many users at all, one of the website only had 4 signed up users.

"One is guilty until proven innoncent", I learned that from one of my history classes, although that's not how it works today, but if something is claimed it should also be proven. I claimed that there are reasons of one should be suspicious about jon and i've done my bid, go ahead do the reverse-ip search, besides i'm not the one claiming that i've earned millions.

In a last peice of note: I was talking to giles how i wanted to get adsense on my website and make it so that the ads were a part of my website (this happened a week ago) and yesterday i goto jon's blog and see that he's written down the same idea with the only difference is that he wrote along with juicy metaphors (where are you Giles, tell them it's true that we had this discussion). Anyways, sorry for butting into your thread cutter, it's a bad habbit of mine :cool:

[Giles]

In a last peice of note: I was talking to giles how i wanted to get adsense on my website and make it so that the ads were a part of my website (this happened a week ago) and yesterday i goto jon's blog and see that he's written down the same idea with the only difference is that he wrote along with juicy metaphors (where are you Giles, tell them it's true that we had this discussion). Anyways, sorry for butting into your thread cutter, it's a bad habbit of mine :cool:

Yes, we did have this discussion, but I learned from an an article on this site (http://www.websitepublisher.net/article/adsense-optimization/) and talked to a few of my webmaster buddies. I'm sure Jon was just covering some basics so that his blog seemed like it had more posts and he posted more often.

As for Markus, If he is a fraud then it would be pretty cool to bring him down. I listened to that interview and really enjoyed it. I do find it hard to believe that he is using one adsense leaderboard, imagine how much more he could make using AFF affiliate links! I admit that if I was making that amount, rather than secretive and sneaky about it I would blow my own horn as loud as possible and be in newspapers etc. but only if I was sure it would support me for the rest of my life, and by support I mean support me and my extended family in luxury.

Last of all, I'm really very sorry but I can't help correcting mistakes. I'm the first to admit that nobody is perfect but:
"lier" is spelt "liar"

[Todd W]

Yes, we did have this discussion, but I learned from an an article on this site (http://www.websitepublisher.net/article/adsense-optimization/) and talked to a few of my webmaster buddies. I'm sure Jon was just covering some basics so that his blog seemed like it had more posts and he posted more often.

As for Markus, If he is a fraud then it would be pretty cool to bring him down. I listened to that interview and really enjoyed it. I do find it hard to believe that he is using one adsense leaderboard, imagine how much more he could make using AFF affiliate links! I admit that if I was making that amount, rather than secretive and sneaky about it I would blow my own horn as loud as possible and be in newspapers etc. but only if I was sure it would support me for the rest of my life, and by support I mean support me and my extended family in luxury.

Last of all, I'm really very sorry but I can't help correcting mistakes. I'm the first to admit that nobody is perfect but:
"lier" is spelt "liar"

If you listened to the same one I did you should have heard that he IS useing AFF ads and other affiliate ads as well.

[Billyray]

"One is guilty until proven innoncent"
Only in the minds of uneducated ignoramuses and in France.


I claimed that there are reasons of one should be suspicious about jon and i've done my bid, go ahead do the reverse-ip search, besides i'm not the one claiming that i've earned millions.
A healthy dose of scepticism is not a bad thing vahsi. Just be careful how you scope the question because disrespecting a reputable member of this forum with years of valuable contributions will just give you a bad name. And your own good name is everything.


Yes, we did have this discussion, but I learned from an an article on this site (http://www.websitepublisher.net/article/adsense-optimization/) and talked to a few of my webmaster buddies.
Yep, Cutter = Andrew Johnson - the author of that article. Nice article by the way :p .

[chromate]

I was suspicious of Markus' claims too. But I wouldn't go as far as "calling him out" because I have no solid evidence.

What I can say is that, as some of you know, I have a link on the front page of plentoffish. It brings in absolutely minimal traffic, we're talking like < 10 uniques a day. Considering his claimed traffic levels I would expect it to send more. Yes, the link is right at the bottom of the page and looks pretty insignificant - but I've had links on other sites in the same kind of place (it's quite common on dating sites) and they've sent similar levels of traffic.

[LeeD]

My newbie (to this forum) question is, "Who cares what the guy makes?" :)

If he wants to brag, let him brag, right? If he wants to lie, let him lie, right? It does seem a bit odd to call a blogger out about an interview posted on his blog.

Andrew, you did nothing wrong here. Hopefully this all will build up some traffic to your blog. ;)

[r2d2]

My newbie (to this forum) question is, "Who cares what the guy makes?" :)

If he wants to brag, let him brag, right? If he wants to lie, let him lie, right? It does seem a bit odd to call a blogger out about an interview posted on his blog.


I think the point is, that if he is telling the truth, then we could learn something from what he has to say - if he isn't, then what he has to say is worth much less.

[mark1]

I told you guys in the other thread about Jon:

The net is full of BSers, period.

And Shoemoney is included in that list, need an example?

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?p=418785#post418785

in the link above Shoe says:I have never bought anyones book on making money with adsense...

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/search.php?searchid=1325841

here magically Shoe turns out to be an ebook-eater.

I mean don't be fooled by the cover of a book(no pun intended), these guys are surely succesful in what they do, I won't bet my home on their honesty though.
Just common sense on the net.

[Giles]

That adsense optimisation article is great, I have a copy printed out beside my bed, along with a lot of other papers.
Also, Shoemonkey is using the whole thing as another way to get interest, traffic and subscribers. Just like he is claiming Markus is trying to do with all his publicity. I, for one now subscribe to Shoemonkey's blog and I do so solely becuase of that post. I also enjoy the 2 web crew podcast now, thanks to this debate.

Thanks Markus Frind, I now have more sites to waste time on.

[Cutter]

I believe the bottom line here is that you have to judge people on the results of their ideas, which you can't do unless you test them. Chris gives great advice, Jon gives great advice, Shoemoney gives great advice, and so does Markus. I've never been able to verify any of their claimed incomes, be it $300k or $3 million. I am here to make money not get caught up in any personal drama.

I talked to Shoemoney and there are no hard feelings between us. If I was an investigative reporter I would dig into every little detail here but I'm not. I've got many different websites and projects I'm working on and this has already put me behind schedule more than I care to admit.

[michael_gersitz]

What is 10k? 1,000 clicks per day at $1 each. How much traffic is he getting? 1 Million Unique a day?

[Cutter]

He says 600,000 uniques a day; the stats from other sites would say this is probably about right. I doubt he is getting $1 a click, I would suspect more like 40 cents. From that view the numbers make sense.

[FPU]

I am happy just to learn of any concept to see how people make money online, anyone with half a brain knows in advance you can't believe everything you read or hear, so don't let it bother you man, just create content and move on!

[ozgression]

What is 10k? 1,000 clicks per day at $1 each. How much traffic is he getting? 1 Million Unique a day?

Actually, it would be 10,000 clicks. :)

I agree with Cutter that the CPC with Adsense for this topic would be closer to $0.40-$0.50 per click. If he gets 600,000 uniques a day, than 20,000 or so clicks per day is very possible.

[chromate]

Actually, yeah, that's the other thing. The adsense ads on my dating site were rarely above $0.35/click.

[Cutter]

Here is a very curious thing that happened. My blog jumped to number 2 on msn for "plentyoffish" yesterday -- sending me over 500 uniques! 500 uniques a day for any single keyword on MSN is almost unbelievable.

[John]

Looks like its #1 now.

[michael_gersitz]

Cutter, you should fix the menu on your site... It is not looking right in IE.

[FPU]

Who in the hell is searching for that term Andrew???

Are you sure Shoemoney is not gaming you here??

He may have hacked your stat's program! :rage: :goof: :p

[John]

Cutter, you should fix the menu on your site... It is not looking right in IE.

Yeah it's coming up at the bottom of your page after all the articles, looks good in firefox though :D

[Cutter]

Thanks guys, thats not the first time the menu has done that! I made a few changes last week and I must have missed it.