Time for a new computer, again

[Cutter]

My computer has been doing some wierd stuff, and I think my motherboard is dieing on me. I'm going to order some parts on Newegg tommorow. This will be 4th computer and the first I've put together myself.

My first computer that was "mine" I got in 1995, 100mhz 16mb RAM 1GB HD. I remember setting it up like yesterday, and smelling that great new computer smell (which I now learn are really dangerous chemicals.) Before that I used my dad's original IBM PC with DOS 1.0. Finally, in 1999 I got a 500mhz, 128mb RAM, 20GB HD -- and I finally graduated from Win 3.1 to Win98. This machine I got in 2003, and I barely even remember what its technical specifications are, except that its got a GB of RAM.

Sadly, it looks like I'll be butchering this thing to make my new machine. :(

[Todd W]

www.hardforum.com

Check it out :)

[MarkB]

I built my own PC (for the first time) this year, and it's a beauty. And considering what I put into it, it's so much cheaper than what I would've paid retail (obviously).

[Masetek]

I used to work as a computer technician...I love building computers, playing round with hardware and overclocking stuff. You can get a much better deal if you can build yourself. I got my comp for just over $1k AUD...

300gig hdd
19in lcd
3.8gig athlon and board
256mb video
dvd burner
adsl 2 modem
case
..and accessories

If you run into any trouble getting it goin PM me :)

[AndyH]

I'm going to get a new one when I get my house. This one is pretty much 2 years old so it is about time.

Really want to see the pricing on the new Dell 30" LCD soon to be released. Want to pick one of them up. Dual-core AMD, 2GB RAM. Should keep it atleast decent for a year or two.

[Chris]

After being tired of dealing with shoddy parts from cheap dealers on pricewatch I just buy dells and pay the extra $20 for them to build it for me and warranty it.

My most recent is an XPS with the USB/headphone etc jacks in front, which is nice. Doing something unstandard like that with a self bought is going to be hard since you'll need specialty parts.

The ability to use old parts and get a fancy case is, in my opinion, the only benefit of building your own. If you're getting all new parts I don't see a major price savings.

[Chris]

just fo fun I just priced out a new dell.

p4 3.2 w/ ht
xp media edition (another savings.. dell gets windows licenses cheap, you pay retail)
256MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon X600 SE HyperMemory
1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs
160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
16x dvd burner
19 inch flat panel monitor included
Sound Blaster® Audigy®2 ZS (D) Card w/Dolby 5.1, and IEEE 1394

$1179

- 10% coupon

$1063

newegg:
processor: $217
mb: $132
memory: ~$60 (my how cheap it is now)
graphics card: $179
harddrive: $87.50
dvdburner: $40 (these are cheap now too)
soundcard: $90

$805. And you still need a case, a window's license, and a 19 inch LCD monitor to compare with the dell.

[moonshield]

Yep, buying Dell almost makes too much sense. From the budget end of the spectrum to the higher end, it's a great deal.

[MarkB]

My home built machine has USB and headphone jacks in the front. Just depends on the case and m'board you buy, innit?

[r2d2]

I think it depends on whether you enjoy fiddling with computers, whether self-build or pre-made is the best choice. If you enjoy mucking with computers, you will always want to build it yourself; if you just want a computer so you can use it, premade is probably the best for you.

Personally I too enjoy building computers and overclocking etc so I always build mine myself. I prefer being able to choose every item. Also I like to make mine very quiet, so self build is the best way for me.

[thebillionaire]

just fo fun I just priced out a new dell.

p4 3.2 w/ ht
xp media edition (another savings.. dell gets windows licenses cheap, you pay retail)
256MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon X600 SE HyperMemory
1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs
160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
16x dvd burner
19 inch flat panel monitor included
Sound Blaster® Audigy®2 ZS (D) Card w/Dolby 5.1, and IEEE 1394

$1179

- 10% coupon

$1063

newegg:
processor: $217
mb: $132
memory: ~$60 (my how cheap it is now)
graphics card: $179
harddrive: $87.50
dvdburner: $40 (these are cheap now too)
soundcard: $90

$805. And you still need a case, a window's license, and a 19 inch LCD monitor to compare with the dell.


What are you talking about? thats very cheap dell offers specs like that at $1800

[Westech]

I'm with Chris on the Dell option. I've built many PC's from parts over the years and I enjoy it. I used to work for a local computer shop when I was in college and I probably planned, ordered parts, assembled and tested hundereds of PCs while I was there.

In my experience, if you go with the defaults that Dell offers you'll save money over building the same system yourself. On top of the money savings, you're covered by warranty, you know all of the hardware will be compatible, and you can go to the Dell website to easily find and download all of the latest drivers for your system at any time.

Where Dell becomes less competitive is if you want a configuration that differs from their standard offerings. For instance, to add 1 GB of RAM to that P4 3.2 system they want an extra $120. You can get it elsewhere for $60. The same applies to adding larger hard drives, better video cards, etc.

Myself, I always order my new PCs from Dell now, but sometimes order a more bare-bones system and then order extra RAM, hard drives, etc from other places for a better price.

[Todd W]

For friends and family they get a dell for me I don't like sub-par hard drives, and the cheapest motherboards around even though they have a warranty.

My expierence shows dells last 3 years at best then fans, hard drives, and other parts start to fail. While I only use MY desktop for 2 years at best I can then resell it and get almost 50% of what I have in it for another system, or use it as my secondary (which is what I normaly do). I`ve sold a couple of my systems to friends and they last another 2-3 years before parts start to fail.

I can tell the difference between a Dell and a Homebuilt of identical specifications. The homebuilt has lower latency ram, faster seek time hardrive etc. (Some may think those specs aren't the same, and on a technical level they aren't but on HD Size and ram amount they are.)

So it really depends how much money you want to spend, and if you want to make your own system to be "top notch". I use hardforum.com to find deals from 2-3 reputable places but normaly I`ll spend $5-10$ more per-part to get it form newegg bcause their return policy is great, and their warranty is good. (I`ve only had to warranty 3 parts and they were all ram in the 12+ years i`ve been building computers.)

If you check hardforum and are patient you can find free dvd burners, free($20) hard drives, on sale motherboards, highly reduced Dell LCDs (whihc are very nice I must add) as well as sound cards etc. They are mostly name brand too, Western Digital, Plextor, etc.

I built 3.0ghz amd w/1gb ram for under $1,000 this summer for my girlfrind it has 200gb hd space and I forget what video card but its pci-express too.

I haven't checked the intel vs amd recently so I can't sugges tone over the other but my AMD system(desktop is nice). I have a 3.4ghz p4 laptop I got a YEAR ago and it seems slower (probably due to hd speed). You can't go wrong wtih either really... look dual core probably now.

And my $80 case has 2 usb, 2 firewire and sound jacks in front too.

-Todd

[eMEraLdwPn]

up until recently, dell refused to sell AMD products, so i refused to buy another dell computer. now they sell amd, but it's limited in selection. over the summer i built a new computer, reusing some old parts, and spent $400

[Westech]

My expierence shows dells last 3 years at best then fans, hard drives, and other parts start to fail.

I have worked in the IT departments of many universities over the years (and still do.) The majority of these institutions were standardized on Dell hardware, with thousands of workstations in use at any given time. Older PC's are usually kept in use for a very long time and handed down to student workers or staff members who don't need fast hardware.

I haven't noticed a failure rate for Dells that is any greater than the failure rate for other brands, or for "frankenstein" PC's.

In fact, the vast majority of the Dell PC's we're using are still working fine with no hardware failures after 3+ years.

[moonshield]

^ Yea there is probably a difference between the Optiplex and the Dimension series. Most colleges seem to use the Optiplex series.

[Westech]

^ Yea there is probably a difference between the Optiplex and the Dimension series. Most colleges seem to use the Optiplex series.

Excellent point.

I've been shopping around for an upgrade myself. What do you guys think of the new XPS systems Dell is offering? Dual core processors and 10k RPM RAID 1 hard drives look pretty sweet.

[Kate]

What do you guys think about buying computers off eBay? I was thinking about buying something like this -
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Intel-Pentium-4-775-17-LCD-1G-200G-256M-video-Windows_W0QQitemZ8732212871QQcategoryZ111437QQrdZ1 QQcmdZViewItem

[moonshield]

Why buy used when you can buy new for less?

[Chris]

What are you talking about? thats very cheap dell offers specs like that at $1800
Dell canada maybe... I just went to dell.com and priced out a new XPS, no big secret.

[Chris]

The idea that Dell uses lower quality parts is a myth. They aren't cheap because parts are of low quality, they're cheap because Dell gets massive discounts from the manufacturer.

In fact I'd go so far as to say no parts retailer in the world buys in as much volume from manufacturers as Dell does, and so its unlikely they can command the same discounts.

[deronsizemore]

I liked Dell until they screwed me on my most recent purchase, by telling me that I qualified for the no interest for 1 year option and then after I buy it, I'm getting charged for interest and all these other hidden charges, so I call them up and they tell me that I only qualified for 3,000 line of credit and you have to qualify for 5,000 line of credit, then I check my credit report and Dell never even ran my credit to begin with. Turns out they are in about to be in a class action lawsuit for doing the same thing to NUMEROUS people. I was in contact with the law agency a few months ago about getting in on the lawsuit to maybe make some money, but I don't think it's worth the effort.

Truth be told, if I buy again, I'll probably still buy from Dell just because you cannot beat what they have to offer, but I'm still pissed at them.

[eMEraLdwPn]

i've hated dell ever since they wasted countless hours of my time and caused me an extreme amount of frustration. 4 or 5 years ago, one of my speakers stopped working, and it was under warranty, so i figured i could just call them up and get it replaced, no problem. after an hour of "troubleshooting", despite me telling the tech numerous times that there was no need to troubleshoot, because it was my freaking speaker that was broken, he determined my sound card was damaged.

so they send someone to my house to replace my sound card. the guy brought the wrong sound card, but decided to give me the one he brought anyway. because it was a different sound card, i didn't have the drivers, which would have been no problem if it were as easy to get drivers back then as it now... except it was difficult to find them, and i only had a 56k. so i call dell and tell them what happened, they say no problem, we'll email them to you. i wait an hour, nothing. call them again, they appologize, say they'll email them to me. again, nothing. so i call back again and tell them i'm not getting off the phone until they email me the damn drivers. instead, the guy just tells me a url i can go to where i can download them. why that was so difficult in the first place, i have no idea. so i download the drivers which takes several hours on my 56k, and guess what? it's the drivers for my old sound card! wow. so i call back again, finally get the right drivers, takes another few hours to download them, but i install them and now they work..... of course, since it was my SPEAKER that was broken, i was back at square one. after more phone calls, they FINALLY replaced my speaker. god i hate dell...

[Todd W]

The idea that Dell uses lower quality parts is a myth. They aren't cheap because parts are of low quality, they're cheap because Dell gets massive discounts from the manufacturer.

In fact I'd go so far as to say no parts retailer in the world buys in as much volume from manufacturers as Dell does, and so its unlikely they can command the same discounts.

I`m not saying that because they are cheap they are low quality. I am simply saying THEY ARE low quality. I agree they buy a lot, probably MOST computer parts and get the best discounts.

This doesn't mean the dell computers come with high quality parts.

Just like any other comptuer you can buy, you can get $50 ram that will probably last a year or two or you can spend $100 or more on high quality ram that will outlast you and perform better too. (And if it doesn't get another stick free.)

Really its up to the buyer, and I tell everyone I know to go with dell but MYSELF, I want the most performance and reliability and I don't see that in the Dell systems or any pre-made. (Unless it's custom pre-made, but then you might as well make it yourself if you can)

[Cutter]

I haven't done a comparison of Dell's systems lately, but last I checked they were using slower RAM and such than I would have preferred. I'm not real technical when it comes to hardware, but I agree with Todd on this one. I'd prefer Seagate HDs, Intel motherboard, etc. I'm not nickel and diming when it comes to computer parts. I still want deals, but I want hardware from trusted manufacturers.

I actually ran a failed custom computer building business a while ago. The markets for PCs are so developed now, everyone either falls under Dell/cheap machines or do-it-yourself (which is why Newegg has in excess of $1 billion in sales last year.)

Now if I needed a laptop, I'd go with Dell. Building your own just doesn't make any sense.

[Nintendo]

I haven't done a comparison of Dell's systems lately, but last I checked they were using slower RAM.


i've hated dell ever since they wasted countless hours of my time and caused me an extreme amount of frustration.


I liked Dell until they screwed me on my most recent purchase


THEY ARE low quality.

Upgrade to Macintosh and none of you will ever have to worry about poor quality again!! Not to mention not having to worry about the daily viruses and spyware!!

*ducks* :D:D:D

[deronsizemore]

Upgrade to Macintosh and none of you will ever have to worry about poor quality again!! Not to mention not having to worry about the daily viruses and spyware!!

*ducks* :D:D:D


I'd like to get an ibook sometime or another. I just think they look very nice!

[James]

*ducks* :D:D:D
With good reason; James bist ins das haus!

[Masetek]

I like to know exactly what brands of parts are in my machine so I always buy seperately from local computer shops and build it myself. It's easy to take care of the warranty as well and if it's a small shop and you get to know the people working there they'll look after you in future.

When I was a computer tech we always had problems with brand name computers. And you always had to send it off at a ridiclious charge and wait 2 weeks minimum. And you usually viod the warranty if you open it up so even if something small goes wrong it has to be taken back to the shop or sent off.

Keep it local I reckon :)

[Todd W]

I like to know exactly what brands of parts are in my machine so I always buy seperately from local computer shops and build it myself. It's easy to take care of the warranty as well and if it's a small shop and you get to know the people working there they'll look after you in future.

When I was a computer tech we always had problems with brand name computers. And you always had to send it off at a ridiclious charge and wait 2 weeks minimum. And you usually viod the warranty if you open it up so even if something small goes wrong it has to be taken back to the shop or sent off.

Keep it local I reckon :)

This is true.

My friend has worked at the local computer shop for over 5 years so anything he can pricematch he does for me... It makes it nice, and good for loaner parts if I send something in for warranty :)

[Chris]

I've always found local shops to be inordinantly expensive.

[Shawn]

They are. I took my laptop in for a quick repair, it took less than an hour -- $50.

But hey, that's capitalism.

[Cutter]

This computer I bought locally from a single man operation shop (which I had stopped at when looking to buy my very first computer nearly 8 years before.) It certainly wasn't priced competatively with Dell, but I thought it was a pretty good deal and it was what I wanted.

[MarkB]

<offtopic>
You had a laptop repaired for $50? Consider yourself lucky; any decent firm will charge a minimum block of 1 hour, and a decent rate at that (the company I work for charges £60 per 1hr).
</offtopic>

[Cutter]

Best Buy's Geek Squad's on-site service charges $120 minimum, just to show up to your house (last I checked their prices.) Thats before even trying to fix anything. Not to mention that they send someone who might have been running the cash registers a week earlier.

There is a huge market for computer service now with spyware and all that junk that is attracted to novice user's machines like a magnet. You can make an easy $50-$100 an hour cleaning people's machines up.

I had a friend whose system was bogged down by some of that garbage. I did a full reformat re-install, within 5 minutes he had the same crap re-installed on his machine. I was so mad I just went home.

[r2d2]

...within 5 minutes he had the same crap re-installed on his machine...

What sort of stuff? Stuff he installed himself?

[eMEraLdwPn]

some spyware stuff is absolutely insane... i remember one time i was using a website with IE because it wouldn't work in firefox, and i accidentally clicked on the "yes" to download some crap. for the next 15 minutes, my computer kept going to websites, downloading, and installing more stuff and there was nothing i could do about it. thank god for system restore...

[Cutter]

I think it was Grokkster, can't really remember.

[freekrai]

I've always found local shops to be inordinantly expensive.

Here in Kelowna, most shops are overly expensive, but last summer I bought my new computer and built it, and when I did, I bought all the parts from a computer shop that is run out of this guy's house to cut down on storefront expenses and deals mostly with phone orders and businesses instead of any walk-ins so he doesn't really need a storefront.

His prices were competing with tigerdirect and ncix and some others and I didn't have to pay any shipping.

Otherwise, I don't deal with local shops. I can fix the computer myself if I have any problems, even my mac I can fix easily.

[James]

some spyware stuff is absolutely insane... i remember one time i was using a website with IE because it wouldn't work in firefox, and i accidentally clicked on the "yes" to download some crap. for the next 15 minutes, my computer kept going to websites, downloading, and installing more stuff and there was nothing i could do about it. thank god for system restore...
That's why I cripple my Internet Explorer. I'm pretty sure all it can open are basic HTML files without any CSS or Javascript, etc. and text files; things of that sort.

[freekrai]

I find running avast on my laptop works well for keeping stuff away.
It's got a few different types of scanners and I usually keep the browser scanner turned on.
Works well.
My other computers are a mac and linux boxes so they don't get affected by that stuff anyway.

[moonshield]

I use internet explorer, 'cause it's swift. :)

Seriously, if you keep the thing updated you don't have to worry too much. I don't have any spyware or viruses roaming my computer.

[Masetek]

Oh no...here comes another ie vs firefox debate... :p

[Cutter]

I can't imagine not using Firefox as my regular browser anymore than I can't imagine not using Litestep (http://www.litestep.net/) to replace my GUI.

[James]

I use internet explorer, 'cause it's swift. :)

Seriously, if you keep the thing updated you don't have to worry too much. I don't have any spyware or viruses roaming my computer.
Keeping things updated doesn't work for me; IE is always at fault for my computer getting viruses spyware and adware... But Firefox ain't any slower, and I can't imagine running without tabs and my Firefox Extensions.

I'd say that it's always best to look for what your specific computer will look like, and then look at how cheap it is for either built yourself or buying a Dell (never buy an HP). If you're looking for tech support, though, go for a standard Dell. If you like the idea of voiding your warranty, then it's probably cheapest to get a Dell then add in your extra RAM, etc. later.

[r2d2]

[More off-topic]
How come Dell are so big? There are loads of computer manufacturers out there, what differentiated Dell to make them grow so big? Is it just Michael Dell's vision and guidance at the helm?
[/off-topic]

[moonshield]

Dell revolutionized how computer's were made. Efficency is the keyword here.

[r2d2]

So they just made they cheaper than anyone else did? (Whilst retaining quality etc...)

[Cutter]

I remember back in the mid to late 90s, Dell wasn't cheap. In fact, they were one of the most expensive manufacturers. Back then Dell meant high quality.

[Chris]

Nah, Compaq etc were always more expensive than Dell.

Dell & Gateway were the cheap mail order places. Dell beat gateway both because of more efficient manufacturing and because Dell promoted more it's lower end models & Gateway it's higher end. Gateway also stumbled on it's "Gateway Country" stores.

http://www.computerworld.com/printthis/2000/0,4814,54131,00.html



Dell is able to achieve a four-hour production cycle time using an Internet-based supply-chain management system, Figueroa says. After getting an order, Dell notifies its suppliers about what components are needed, and they're delivered within an hour and a half.

[Todd W]

Back in the day Micron meant high-end nice systems now I think they merged or went out of biz.

[Chris]

Micron is focused on memory now (see crucial.com)

[Todd W]

Micron is focused on memory now (see crucial.com)

Interesting, didn't know it was the same "Micron".

[James]

Don't buy Compaqs either. Stay away from HP and Compaq.

[deronsizemore]

What is the major problem with Compaq and HP?

[Todd W]

I`ve had more problems with HP and Compaqs over the last 13 years than any other brand combined. This comes from computer shop work to in house work to working as an IT guy at Agilent.

I would buy a dell way way before an hp/compaq.

[Cutter]

Micron was expensive, but Dell was still up there for a while; certainly not past 1999, may be even 1998. I don't know, thats about the time I stopped paying attention to hardware closely :D

I had a huge collection of PC Magazines all the way back from 1994 or 1995, but last I heard my mom threw them out.

[James]

My brother, his girlfriend, and my mom all did tech support for HP and Compaq.
They're horrible--and to be honest, I don't think the tech support sounded too fantastic. :P

[Chris]

My problem with compaq/hp was all the proprietary crap they put in their systems. Including a really bloated version of windows. But then again I haven't owned a compaq pc since like 99.

[Westech]

I also remember that at some point compaq was doing some weird thing where they put part of the BIOS on a partition on the hard disk. This meant that you couldn't do a normal fdisk/format/reinstall or the system wouldn't boot. If you had to reinstall the system you were forced to use their system restore disk and let it install all of thier bloated add-on crap. :mad:

When I worked in a computer shop, I used to shudder every time an HP or compaq came in for repair (and they came in a LOT). Granted, this was years ago, so a lot could have changed since then.

[deronsizemore]

I just figured HP either is better now then before or something since they are the number 2 manufacturer or PC's...or maybe because you can get one cheap from Wal-Mart...?

[James]

NO NO NO
They're not good in the least, and you will suffer the consequences if you even consider purchasing one of these vial beasts.

[MarkB]

The missus has a compaq, and it's much less frightening than the compaq an ex-gf had as far as proprietry bull****.

[Blue Cat Buxton]

Ive bought HP's for work before and they have been fine, farily solid workhorse PC's.

Always went for Dell Laptops (apart for a Gateway that was one of the best laptops I ever had).
The keyboards on the Dells kept failing.

In that sort of environment, when you are spending someone elses (ie the bosses) money, buying a named brand is almost essential cause then if (when) it goes wrong, the fact that is is an HP/Dell/etc rather than joe's computershop special means they cant say "you should have paid a bit more and got a 'quality' machine rather than wasting our money on tat even though it was better specified and cheaper and the only reason it doesn't work is because so and so has poured coffee over the bl**dy thing but swears blind they haven't"

Anyway Gateway are no more (outside of US) and I bought a Toshiba Laptop from John Lewis for myself this time around rather than a Dell.

[moonshield]

Toshiba makes a quality laptop. My brother has an old laptop from 93 he uses a bit for fun, and it still works just fine.

[ozgression]

I have a HP bought 6 months and it works fine... no problems at all.

[Cutter]

Well, HP does make good scanners ;)

[ozgression]

Wouldn't know... don't own one. :mad:

[r2d2]

And good sauce (http://www.hpfoods.com/brands/hpsauce/) :)

(Maybe thats just UK though ? :rolleyes: )

[moonshield]

Well, HP does make good scanners ;)


and printers.