college + work = rough

[Doug]

Just started college today, for the first time. Went from 9 - 3:15, then worked from 4-11. This leaves me wondering, "what about my sites?" I hope they don't suffer because I can't devote as much time to them. On the plus side, I have tomorrow where I get out at 10:50 and thursday where I get out at 9:50, but I also have to catch up on homework on those days. I better make a crap load of money when I get outta this in 4 years.

[Chris]

That is alot of work for going to college, 7 hours in a day is nearly full time.

Where you going?

[Masetek]

What r u doin at college?

[Cutter]

You need to make your sites your job as soon as possible. I'm in college right now; I spent all of the summer before last summer working a part time job & building my first sites. This past summer I worked on my sites full time & I had time to do other things I wanted.

[Doug]

Im going to Central Michigan University for Electrical Engineering. I'm trying to get them to cut me back to three days a week at work so I have time to study and whatnot. They are making me a manager soon though so I will have a little more say in my schedule. Its a family owned pizza place so its not like a McDonald's where there are tons of workers to pick up the hours. I worked on my sites a lot this summer but not enough, my plan is to try to make them my job by next summer, even though my dad won't support it. I still live at home which is a big break money wise so I need to tread lightly with this website stuff around my dad because he is one of those people who believe you can't make money with websites.

[Westech]

I feel your pain Doug. I'm currently working 40+ hour weeks, taking 6 hours per semester of graduate courses, and also trying to balance my family life and household chores with running my websites and small hosting business.

I guess I don't really have any advice to give except to work as efficiently as you can and you'll be amazed at how much you can get done. I found that during the time that I was "working on my sites" I actually was spending the majority of that time reading and posting on forums and chatting on IM. Once I realized this I was able to focus a certain amount of time per day on my sites, and then any spare time I had left over could be used for the fun stuff.

I was also amazed at the amount of TV I was watching. Cut that down to just 1 or 2 shows per week that you really like and you'll suddenly have a lot more site building time.

[Chris]

even though my dad won't support it. I still live at home which is a big break money wise so I need to tread lightly with this website stuff around my dad because he is one of those people who believe you can't make money with websites.

My wife, before we were married but when we were living together, once broke down and had a little panic attack about what if she got pregnant and would I get a real job, how could I support a family? She basically thought I was a bum who played too many video games and who had a "kramerific" scheme to get rich on the Internet. I kept telling her it'd pay off one day.

People really don't start believing you until you start getting checks. Every once in a while I look at my wife and say "Remember when you thought I was a bum?" She is never going to live that down. But hey, atleast I know she didn't marry me for my money.

[michael_gersitz]

I am going to college full time, have 2 part time jobs, and have to almost full time businesses. Might be a little tough?

[Todd W]

It will pay off in the end, even if you can only dedicate 30minutes to 1hr a day for your sites it's better than 0.

[Cutter]

Running your own business, if done right, will always pay off more than being an employee or getting a college degree. Take it seriously and make it a top priority in your life.

[Doug]

I would really like to run my own business someday actually but I want the degree to fall back on. I try to dedicate at least 20 minutes a night to the sites. There will be days like today where I get lucky and have quite a bit of time, but it wasn't all spent on the internet working on the sites. It wasn't spend screwing around either though, I had to fix my car. It seems like there is always stuff like that comming up.

[chromate]

People really don't start believing you until you start getting checks.

... and even then some people just don't get it. I know someone that's pulling in nearly $80,000 a month pre-tax profit. Aparently his family still don't think he has a proper job :) It's because it's so easy to take a lot of time off and people don't think it's possible to earn money when you're not working.

[MarkB]

I'm lucky - my wife more than understands what is possible, and is eager for me to succeed so she can live in the luxury to which she'd like to become accustomed :)

[Blue Cat Buxton]

I agree though, getting the cheques does help convince the other half that websites can make money

[moonshield]

heh, indeed. I am currently doing college right now and I have more than enough time for sites, though I do make sites for my job. Your schedule is much more difficult then mine..

mine is 10:00-10:50 12:00- 2:00 on MWF and 11:00 - 12:20 on Tuesday and Thursday. I also have a 6:30 - 9:25 class on Monday. Pretty nice schedule for a freshman I suppose.

[Doug]

That is a nice schedule. Mine is going to be packed the whole 4 years by the looks of it. The engineering course looks rough. I don't even think I can have a minor. According to the classes I need, by my junior year, it looks like they will be all engineering classes.

People in my family are constantly saying to me "I don't understand, who is paying you" and "how do you make money" and, my dad's favorite "the only way to make money is to work hard." I often come back with "What do you think I do on the computer every night?" Of course he thinks im just screwing around on it. When I tried to use a billboard concept to explain to him how I get money for running advertisements, he wouldn't hear anything of it, saying that it's nothing like that. I can't even explain what his explaination was for why it wasn't like that because it was just too confusing.

[Cutter]

You have to just ignore what they say. Unless your dad is a multi-millionaire, in which case I would pay close attention.

When I set my life goals I pay attention to multi-millionaires, not someone driving a new BMW living in a $1,000,000 house with an interest-only mortgage and with $50,000 of credit card debt. If I want to make successful website I pay attention to successful webmasters like Chris. I don't pay attention to webmasters who aren't making any money on the web.

Pay attention to the successful people, help out the unsuccessful ones. When the unsuccessful ones are hindering you, then ignore them.

Everyone who goes to college gets hired by someone. The question is, who are the people with all the money to pay people $50,000 or $100,000 a year? (except the government.)

[Chris]

When I try to explain what I do I say its akin to owning a magazine or a television station -- although I don't think that'll help you with your Dad. If he doesn't buy the billboard analogy there is no way he'll buy that you own something like a television station.

One thing that always impressed my parents was traffic. I'd tell them how much traffic I was getting in a month or a day. I actually probably beat some TV stations now in daily viewers.

[moonshield]

yea, when you incorporate and become an official business, that is impressive to most people too.

[eMEraLdwPn]

my schedule is pretty decent for this semester, i should have a decent amount of free time assuming i don't get a ton of homework... last semester was much better though, managed to make my schedule just 3 days a week

Monday:
3:20-4:40
5:15-6:10
7:40-9:00

Tuesday:
10:20-11:40
12:00-1:20
4:30-5:50

Wednesday:
1:55-2:50
3:20-4:40
7:40-9:00

Thursday:
4:30-5:50
6:10-9:00

Friday:
10:20-11:40
12:00-1:20

[jaybird691]

Doug,
Just remember to keep it all in perspective. College gets easier as you get along with it. The first couple of years are tough. But it will pay off for you because of the degree you are getting. Meanwhile, don't let your studies slip. You have all of the abilities to do well in school and do your websites. It isn't easy but if anyone can do it you can. Don't ever doubt yourself.

I am carrying 9 graduate credits and working basically full -time again plus doing the internship for free and working on my sites. I am lucky because I don't have to be beholden to anyone for my time, etc. And I can get along with 5-6 hours of sleep at night.

Remember, once you have that degree no one can ever take it from you. It is one of the most exciting things you will ever experience in life and the college experience is also. Enjoy it.
Everything will take care of itself. Just prioritize everything, study hard, don't skip classes, and enjoy life.

Jay

[thebillionaire]

My school is also starting soon grade 11, but the thing is its alot of work usually homework is 3-4 hours. Last year I was all over the place because I didn't have a website for most of the part. I finally convinced my mom to getting me a web site (I dont have a credit card so I couldn't buy it), although I didn't mention anything about money because my parents aren't really into computers and they would think that I'm in idiot. For this year my schedual will as following:

9:00-3:30 - School
4:00-7:00(maby 8:00) - Home work
8:00-10:00 - website

I dont have a job so its good, im hopping to get less homework then last year, because I was in the gifted classes (pain in the ***), thankfully they go only to grade 10, and hopefully the home work is alot lighter. My parents are gonna cut off my website if I don't pull of a 90% average, which is very hard, the closest I got was an 89%. And my whole plan for starting a website was to make money to see if I could do it full, if I made a few thousand month then I would chose business or computer as a career if not then my dad will make me go into engineering. I asked about going to computers and he said no, which I can understand because most of the computer jobs are going to china, or india. But the thing is I want to go into comp to start my own business. So I asked my dad about business, answer: "no, too hard to be successful". So pretty much Im pretty much trying to make money to show my dad, but no one believes me and my friends try to be supportive but they know that I can't do it. I haven't gotten any checks because I just started with web dev around 3-4 months ago, and I've only made around $80, which is not gonna impress anyone because you cant live off that. so pretty much I got a hell lot of work ahead of me!

P.S: thanks eMEraLdwPn for helping me out with web dev :D

[Cutter]

Business harder than engineering? I think your dad is nuts :D

Start up two or three Laundromats and you will be making just as much as a full-time engineer (and amount of actual work on your part is next to nothing.

[thebillionaire]

Business harder than engineering? I think your dad is nuts :D

not in that sense, engineering will land you a fixed pay job, business you never know

[Doug]

Your dad is telling you what you have to become? I think that is pretty rediculous. Its is in my opinion that a parent should not dictate in any way what career their child chooses. Im going into electrical engineering because I believe it interests me and that is the way it should be. Not because a parent tells me I have to.

[thebillionaire]

I'll prob end up choosing what I want but I gotta prove everyone wrong, every one thinks that making money online is a 'get rich scheme'

[Mike]

My school is also starting soon grade 11, but the thing is its alot of work usually homework is 3-4 hours.

9:00-3:30 - School
4:00-7:00(maby 8:00) - Home work
8:00-10:00 - website

Crikey, you seem to get a lot of homework. I only seem to average an hour a night (sometimes none at all). Then again, subjects like Graphics can take a few hours or so depending on the project.

Is Grade 11 the last year for you in the US? I'm heading into Year 11, which is my last school year.

[thebillionaire]

12 is the last year, the reason u get less home is because the uk school system is totally different, u gotta study like at the last year for the final exam which includes like every thing u learned in highschool. for us its an exam at the end of every semester

[Doug]

every one thinks that making money online is a 'get rich scheme'

You just hit the nail on the head with my family. My mom is about the only person who actually believes I can do something with websites. Unfortunately, she is really big on me putting them on the back burner for now so I can do good in college. My dad believes it is a get rich scheme because he doesn't see what I do as work. He says I am trying to make money by not working. I think spending two hours writing html is work, but to me its fun work. I wish other people saw things the way I did, that would make the world a lot easier. :rolleyes:

[thebillionaire]

Your mom prob says that because she's ur mom, my dad is the same he thinks im playing games on the computer

[James]

My parents believe that it's something that makes me happy, so they don't really have too much concern about whether or not I make millions off of it. But hey, I've also got a $10.00 an hour job I signed up for just to turn down because school starts up too soon and I think the hours will put me at around 9 hours per day of schooling, so they know that since I'm getting the training and have the ambition to actually do some work (it was actually my dad's advice that I choose good amount of sleep + having a life, over working and school at the same time), I'll be fine regardless.

Good to see that all of you are going post-secondary with your education. Hopefully your colleges/universities (mine's both, so I don't know which portion I'm going to ;)) are a bit less cheap than mine. We are being taught about IE4 and NS4, and are told it's just plain stylish to have a ****ty site, with lots of **** flying around anywhere, etc.

[Cutter]

I know what you are talking about. I was going to double major in business management and art. Then I had a design class and one of my teachers was going and and on about how websites shouldn't be boring and they should be really creative and have all kinds of stuff going on (like cursor trails.)

I said F this, I might as well learn & get paid for it so I dropped that degree. It only took a month and I had already made about $400 just designing logos. Now I've devoted myself to designing two things -- websites that have high ad clickthrough rates & e-mail list sign-ups and websites that have high conversion rates to sell products.

[michael_gersitz]

Doug, what is your halo2 screen name? My name is 'gersitz' , I am a 28 in slayer... (not to bad, eh?)

Maybe we can play together sometime?

[thebillionaire]

I know what you are talking about. I was going to double major in business management and art. Then I had a design class and one of my teachers was going and and on about how websites shouldn't be boring and they should be really creative and have all kinds of stuff going on (like cursor trails.)

I said F this, I might as well learn & get paid for it so I dropped that degree. It only took a month and I had already made about $400 just designing logos. Now I've devoted myself to designing two things -- websites that have high ad clickthrough rates & e-mail list sign-ups and websites that have high conversion rates to sell products.

computer teachers are like the dumbest on earth, they only say stuff thats in the books which were printed like 20 years ago.

[Chris]

This is why I never recommend someone pursue a degree for something like web design or development. The teachers are not capable and the curriculum is years behind.

[Chris]

You just hit the nail on the head with my family. My mom is about the only person who actually believes I can do something with websites. Unfortunately, she is really big on me putting them on the back burner for now so I can do good in college. My dad believes it is a get rich scheme because he doesn't see what I do as work. He says I am trying to make money by not working. I think spending two hours writing html is work, but to me its fun work. I wish other people saw things the way I did, that would make the world a lot easier. :rolleyes:
Sounds like your Dad should read "Rich Dad Poor Dad" or something that will teach him the concept of having your money work for you, instead of you working for your money, etc etc.

[Todd W]

This is why I never recommend someone pursue a degree for something like web design or development. The teachers are not capable and the curriculum is years behind.

Exactly! I`ve taken multiple classes at a local JC to try to pickup things based on "web design" because I`m not very 'artsy'. It turns out they know less than me and the suggestions they give are YEARS old. If the course wasn't based around the last few months it's already outdated - very hard to find ones that are helpful! (Basic HTML classes are decent.)

[James]

This is the CIS course I'm in, rather than website design. But I'm concerned that when we get to hardware, we'll be using vacuum tubes.

[thebillionaire]

Sounds like your Dad should read "Rich Dad Poor Dad" or something that will teach him the concept of having your money work for you, instead of you working for your money, etc etc.

Yea but u gotta work for your money before you get to the point of letting money work for you, right now im working for it, soon hopefully I can get it to work for me, because I know what to do, its just that I don't have the money for it.

[Doug]

Your mom prob says that because she's ur mom, my dad is the same he thinks im playing games on the computer

My mom actually wants me to make her a website. She wants to tape a calf birth and put it on the internet. Now, I don't exactly know how many people will come seeking that knowledge because, trust me, it isn't exactly like watching a flower bloom. She seems to think people will want to see it though so as long as she pays for the expenses I'll make her the weird site. If she ever gets around to having me make the site, I'll be sure to enlighten you guys with the video.


Sounds like your Dad should read "Rich Dad Poor Dad" or something that will teach him the concept of having your money work for you, instead of you working for your money, etc etc.

I have been reading a few of those books. My mom turned me on to them actually. I've tried to get him to read them but he won't. My parents are divorced by the way so you can see why they are two different people. I think the rich dad books make very good points and plan to invest in real estate somewhere in the future.


Doug, what is your halo2 screen name? My name is 'gersitz' , I am a 28 in slayer... (not to bad, eh?) Maybe we can play together sometime?

Thats one thing I am lacking is Xbox live. I don't have high speed internet. They just offered dsl out where I am so I am looking into that. I'll most likely have to pay for it since my dad doesn't use the internet that much. If I ever do get Xbox live, I'll be sure to let you know my Halo 2 screen name.

[thebillionaire]

tell me the names of some books, Ill go borrow them from the library

[James]

My mom actually wants me to make her a website. She wants to tape a calf birth and put it on the internet. Now, I don't exactly know how many people will come seeking that knowledge because, trust me, it isn't exactly like watching a flower bloom. She seems to think people will want to see it though so as long as she pays for the expenses I'll make her the weird site. If she ever gets around to having me make the site, I'll be sure to enlighten you guys with the video.
Wow, I've seen it happening, and if just for the War of the Worlds stuff that comes out of the cow along with the calf, I never want to see it again.

[r2d2]

tell me the names of some books, Ill go borrow them from the library

Rich Dad, Poor Dad
Rich Dad's cashflow quadrant
Rich Dad's guide to investing.

All very good books.

[Cutter]

Forget Rich Dad, read Michael Masterson's book "Automatic Wealth." It just came out this year.

[thebillionaire]

Forget Rich Dad, read Michael Masterson's book "Automatic Wealth." It just came out this year.

Is it one of those "make millions without working an hour" books, because I hate those types of books for you have to work no matter what even if its managing people. I also hate those stupid ads that popup.

[ozgression]

Rich Dad Poor Dad books are very basic, but a good place to start for people with little or very basic financial literacy.

[Masetek]

Exactly! I`ve taken multiple classes at a local JC to try to pickup things based on "web design" because I`m not very 'artsy'.

Yeah I'm the same, I can code alright but Im no designer. I went down to my local college for a 1 class sit in to see it its worth it, and it's a pi$$ take!

It's just easier to get a good design book with good layouts and just read the tuts available online.

:D

[Cutter]

Is it one of those "make millions without working an hour" books, because I hate those types of books for you have to work no matter what even if its managing people. I also hate those stupid ads that popup.

No, just the opposite. Michael outlines how to build wealth through a combination of investments, business ownership, and real estate. In principle it is the same as Rich Dad. However -- unlike Robert Kiyosaki, Michael Masterson personally made it long before writing his book.

Its also worth adding I talk to and pay close attention to high net worth individuals. Unless you are a pro sports player or executive you need to be running your own business to make big money. There are always other oddities that result in lots of money like the lottery and lawsuits; don't count on them happening to you.

[James]

Yeah, I always love all these people saying how they got rich off of the internet--but all they did was write a book. What they got rich off of, was chumps like you (I don't mean anyone in general here) buying it.

[Cutter]

Just pay attention to people who have net worths of $5 million or more (the younger the better.) You will see the same thing happening over and over again -- it isn't blind luck. Just because they don't tell you this stuff in school doesn't mean it isn't real.

[thebillionaire]

Just pay attention to people who have net worths of $5 million or more (the younger the better.) You will see the same thing happening over and over again -- it isn't blind luck. Just because they don't tell you this stuff in school doesn't mean it isn't real.

Our schools database is crap, we did a career analysis depending on ur interest, and all the carrers that come out are low paying ****, the highest was doctor, they didn't even have surgeon, its like wtf , they want us to stay at the low end of the ladder or something

[Cutter]

Exactly!

The thing is, you can take a low-paying career such as martial arts instructor and give yourself an income bigger than a doctor. This is done by becoming an expert in your career (not as hard as it sounds) and then developing a product or specialised service.

You have to be pro-active. For 12 years or more we are given specific schedules with specific assignments and then told that perfection actually exists (getting A+'s) This is great for learning reading and math but worthless when it comes to business.

All through grade school I was proactive. I enjoyed reading & learning on my own. Now I'm in college going for a business managament degree. I couldn't see any reason *not* to start my own business.

Think about this. Look at everything in your room. Your computer, your phone, your books, the windows, a pack of gum, empty soda cans and bottled water, everything.

Behind almost every one of those items is someone who made a lot of money and still is making money today. In many cases, there are several multi-millionaires behind the product! For example, lets say you have some cheap doo-dad made in China. You have the Chinese entreprenuer who started the factory, the importor who brought the item into the country, the person who packaged & marketed the product (who probably had the idea and sent the order to China in the first place), then you have the owner of the chain of stores where you bought the item.

For some reason there is this stereotype of the millionaire/rich as an unhappy person who doesn't work and drives expensive cars -- and its only achievable through blind luck or inheritance. That isn't reality.

Don't take my word for it, find these people on your own and ask them how they make money.

What this means for you today? Think about how to make money on your website beyond advertising. Think about what it would take you to buy advertising and turn a profit. And then read everything you can about it (I used to think reading was a waste, but every "rich" person I know says they read a ton.)

[Blue Cat Buxton]

Nice posts Cutter.

I also like the Michael Masterson approach, but haven't read his book - I sense a lot if USA specific, in terms of investment and tax advice?

[MarkB]

Very interesting posts indeed :) Thanks!

As for the Michael Masterson book, I read some reviews on Amazon.com and a few of them said his advice is very much geared to people who already have money to invest, rather than how to change your life so you can manage your income toward acquiring wealth (however large) in the first place. Is this right?

[James]

Very interesting concept, to seek out the rich and ask them how they got rich, Cutter. Maybe you should be writing a book, aswell.

[Cutter]

I'll write a book after I make it big ;)

Michael Masterson's approach assumes that you at least have a job -- then he shows you how to increase your paycheck. The honest to god truth is I think people without an established job are at a bigger advantage. Most people making $50,000+ a year are up to their ears in car payments and credit card bills; they can't just quit their job and start a business.

That being said, you don't need a lot of money to make money; the internet makes starting your own business relatively low-cost -- I don't have to explain that one!

That being said, to really gain momentum in your investments you need to be making 100k - 150k a year.

I just listened to a conference call with Michael Masterson last week. He said don't worry about taxes. Now, if you are in Europe and you are facing 50%+ income tax this is an enormous obstacle. As hard as it sounds, you may want to think about moving. For us US citizens even if we move offshore and renounce our citizenship we still have to pay income taxes for something like 10 years. European laws are more lax in this regard.